Arsenal 1-2 Manchester United: No End In Sight.

Shameful. QPR get Taiwo on loan. We probably didn't make a move, but if Milan can send their LB to QPR, they should be offering the guy to a club with our injury list and our credentials.

If Arsenal manage to keep RVP this summer we have a good chance to win the Europa League next season so why complain???

Would this count as a trophy? Does the Europa League winner automatically qualify for the Champions League?? Why do all the newspapers say Wenger sucks???

I know this was mentioned before, but Ramsey and Walcott represent the sort of problems that Arsenal faces with its financial position.  Both are young and in bad runs of form.  On clubs like Chelsea/Man City/Man U they would be on the bench and play in some cup ties until form improves.  Arsenal basically have to play them because they don't have the funds to sign replacements that can offer more.  In the case of Ramsey he is probably a season or two away from being a top class midfielder.  As it stands he makes too many mistakes, is caught out of postion too easily and has cost arsenal some games.  However, if they do sign a "sure thing" veteran for big money, Ramsey takes longer to develop and the big signing only depreciates in transfer value.  You could argue that Arsenal should sign a player to compete for top 4 but just as easily argue that signing a player for big money could have bigger negative consequences if that player turns out to be not worth the money.

I'll agree on some points and disagree on others.  It's true that those players would head to the bench of they played for the bigger clubs.  And that would be needed.  However, I disagree that we "don't have the funds to sign replacements."  We DO have the funds, but Wenger doesn't spend the funds.  Or the board, or Kroenke.  It's hard to know all that's behind the scenes, but the one thing that's agreed upon by everyone, including the AST, is that there is plenty of money.
Also, it's true that a big expensive signing might not work out.  That happens.  But it's equally true that clubs that don't make any big signings don't win trophies.  You have to try to spend on the right players and all that, but without spending, you simply won't win in today's era.

Like Real Madrid?

Ha ha.  So funny.  They won the league title in 07 and 08, and the Copa Del Rey just last season. 
Again, my point is that big spending doesn't guarantee trophies, but lack of spending does guarantee a lack of trophies.

$200 million for the Copa del Rey? They overpaid. We'll see if they have the killer instinct this year or if they fall apart under the pressure. They should get hammered by Barca tomorrow.
Wenger would spend big and it would just be one more reason why he is shit. The best managers have a 50% success rate in the transfer market. 1 out of 2 do not work out.
Trophies? What are they? Ask Nasri and Cesc.

You puzzle me on so many levels.  First, Real Madrid are up against possibly the greatest club team of all time, so I can forgive them if they don't run away with La Liga.  Second, Cesc has already won things and will continue, so I don't get that reference. Third, again, please get my point.  Yes, some purchases fail.  But if you don't make them, then you won't win.  Please give me an example of a team that didn't spend, sold their best players, and still won big things. 

Wenger can spend or not spend. Either way it eill be 7 more years of NO trophies for the gunners. We'll NEVER beat United, City, Barca or Real. NEVER!!! No spending is just a cheaper way to NO trophies.

Arsenal 2011/2012.

Nasri? Trophies? Soon? Many?

Valencia in the early 2000s as well as Juventus after they sold Zidane, although you can argue they did buy several big players in Buffon and Nedved.

Porto, Lyon until very recently.

There is NEVER plenty of money. Ask Stan. Gazidis said there was plenty of money. How would he know? He can only count to 4.

Yes money is available according to Wenger but we missed Mata by a few pennies who is probably Chelsea's best player

Still numb after attending my first game in some time.There was only going to be one winner until that quite appalling substitution. I couldn’t face watching the MOTD highlights but saw news excerpts this morning with Wenger suggesting that Ox might have been injured if he had stayed on for much longer. Who believes him- no-one. Just as he tried to justify the quite correct subbing of Djourou by saying he might have had a slight hamstring problem. Wenger you screwed up yet gain and you’re a total disgrace. The subbing of the Ox reminded me of the often inevitable subbing of Bergkamp for Cygan with 10/15 minutes to go with the inevitable goal being conceded. The atmosphere around me in the Family Enclosure was pure poison- lucky for Wenger that this is not South America, or someone would have taken a pot at him! Seeing Van Persie as he lingered on the pitch after the final whistle went reminded me of Henry’s and Cesc’s last seasons- a look of utter dejection and resignation. Like everyone else, he knows he will win nothing with this megalomaniac at the helm. It’s pathetic for people to say pay him £150k a week. He deserves to win medals, as did Cesc. We have lost one truly world class player who had yet to hit his peak- we will lose another one who is at his peak right now. To blame the Board is naive- did they really refuse Wenger the funds until Cesc and Nasri were sold? Why then did both Cesc and Kroenke say it was ” Wenger’s decision to sell?” Was it the Board’s decision to buy a tubby Brazilian wing back instead of Enrique or Mertesacker instead of Jagielka or Cahill? I want you out Wenger as you are a has-been who has not only lost the fans but also the dressing room.

Off with Wenger's head! I heard that in addition to ruining Arsenal, he's passing nuclear secrets to the North Koreans. We have to get rid of him!!

And Arshavin is a Russian spy

Cry more please.

Mertesaker has more international caps in a vastly better national team than either Jagielka or Cahill. Jagielka is also immensely injury prone and Cahill sucks.. check the number of goals conceded by Bolton this term.

Thank god you aren't managing Arsenal or else you will run this club to the ground.

Tool.

Arsenal are SO YESTERDAY'S TEAM. Enjoy.

Van Persie knew that we would likely have won that match with Ox on the pitch. Hell, 50,000 fans at the game knew it and told him about it as it was happening. Wenger obviously made up his mind prior to the match that he was going to sub in Shava at 75 minutes. It's impossible to fathom that Wenger is completely incapable of seeing what is happening right in front of him. He truly did not know that Ox was the most dangerous player on the pitch? As he said, he has made 50,000 substitutions but none as disastrous as that one. Ox had just made that beautiful assist on RvP's goal and was looking dangerous and causing United problems every time he received the ball. United was reeling from that goal. We had them on the run. It was our game to lose at that point. Then Wenger takes the initiative away from the team and concedes it to United by making that disastrous, moronic substitution. Wenger cost the team that game and gifted the game to Fergie through incompetence and dereliction of his duty as a manager. He may have not yet lost the dressing room, but he has lost 100,000 home fans. 

No trophies in six years. This year will be 7. 7 more won't be so bad. We are used to it by now. Maybe we can stay in the FA cup this year until the quarter finals. Lord knows there will be no Champions League next year, so we won't have a shot at that next year. Even Piers Morgan is OK with it. He's our celebrity fan. He explained to everyone this weekend how to tap into a celebrities cell phone so you can stay up on all the latest gossip and get a good story for the newspapers. He should be tapping into RvP's cell any day. He should let us know whether RvP will be staying and what he thought of Wenger's substitution on Sunday. Did he really think it was moronic?

I’ve seen worse periods than this under Don Howe and Terry Neill, let alone the season before Rioch when we looked like we’d be relegated for a spell. But for a team that buckles under any sort of pressure, does not work hard, has such brittle confidence and cannot carry out the basic defensive tasks,this is the worst I can recall over the last few years. Poor buys, limited, if any tactical nous or ability to change things, wrong substitutions, playing individuals who refuse to play for each other but still get picked, is down to the manager. Money these days is hard to come by and if the team at least tried, I would not have any qualms about going as often as I used to- about 15 times a season. In recent seasons, however, the team has disrespected its fans more often than not. I might as well throw £50-60 or more down the drain for the amount of pleasure. let alone effort they’ve provided on many match days. Wenger should go if he has any decency left in him- as his terrible performances are now embarrassing. He is now as clueless as Graham and Mee in their last days and to say this is all down to lack of money being sanctioned by the Board is naive. Do they coach the team, did they buy Squillachi Mertesacker, Park or Santos? Did they keep Almunia in goal for years? Did they reward rubbish like Diaby, Bendtner, Denilson and Rosicky so they are now finding it impossible to shift? We’ve got some glory seekers as supporters, but that is not why we are ten points behind Spurs and seem unlikely to qualify for the Champions League. Yes, we’ve got lots to be grateful to Wenger for, but allowing the likes of Fulham and Swansea to out battle us without kicking us is not the sort of thing that should be happening to a top club.Maybe we’re not a top club any more and that is primarily down to the manager, full stop.

AOC never mentions a calf strain or that he wasn't feeling well when reporters ask him about the substitution. He just says that he respects the manager's decision and he is happy that the fans liked his performance. So, obviously it didn't exist and Wenger is just making up excuses for his moronic decision to replace OX.

I don't understand the media witchunt for Arshavin now, like he scored an own goal or something. The guy has been a cam/striker (not winger, and by far not a defender) for the most part of his career. He followed Valencia inside the box sticking to him all the way. I read about this game and ALL media focuses on is a defensive blunder (as if it's not one of Arsenal's main traits in the past seasons among all players) by Arshavin. The blunder is on Arshavin AND whoever had to service the left wing, or failed to come out to help Arshavin cope with Valencia. If you as an Arsenal player know that 1) Valencia is dangerous; 2) Arshavin's defensive
skills are poor - come out and help him for fuck's sake! Song, Kos,
whoever. They just stood there ballwatching. Arsenal is a museum of evolution of defensive blunders and guess what - we found the weak spot, it's Arshavin! He'll go this winter and finally Arsenal will be in top form and will never ever lose to Man United again. Right? Yeah, rrright.

Why is so many people defending Arshavin? We take the piss out of Theo/Djourou for being just as bad. The only difference I see if that Theo wants to do well, Arshavin looks like he can't be arsed putting the kit on. 
Theo, Djourou, Mert, Chamakh and Squil all has received so much stick, and frankly they deserve it. If you under perform at work you're boss takes you a side and you're told to buck up. 
Are we forgetting this is an entertainment as well as a sport? These people get paid over the odds and we spend a lot of time and money into supporting them so we have every right to demand the best of them. 

1. Who was the ManU star-man......easlly....Valencia.  And who was taking care of him, Vermaelen.  Then why no one finds him being the reason why we lost the game?  As usual, no one seems to faulty Vermaelen, but if you replay the goals we conceded, him alone contributed heavily in both.  He positioned himself too far away from the winger (Valencia) in both cases. In the 1st goal he didn't even know where Valencia was, and just reacted to the ball at which time t'was too late.  In the 2nd, when Arsha was tracking back Valencia, the full back (Verm) was no where to help.  He was in the CD position and the rest is history.  Now Arsha takes the blame instead of Verm just because people had already made their minds who the villain is.

IMO, if we can't sign FBs, then Wenger should try our unproven young-FBs instead of DJourou and Verm as these two have difficulties in adjusting to their new positions.  If not, Kos and Ignas seems to be better as FB than Djourou and Verm.

2. I would also argue that AOC should be moved/tried at Ramsey position.  He seems to have better qualities of an attacking mid-F than our current Ramsey.  He also seems to have strong feet than Ram as he doesn't give away the ball easily and can dribble through defenders.  To me this is the position that Arsenal needs to reinvigorate.

Absolutely agree. All this has probably destroyed Arsha's confidence irreparably. Verm is no FB, and he's cost us with his performances there; a fantastic CB he is, as is Kos, and Mert, but if Gibbs can't stay fit and Santos, Sagna and Jenks are a long way away from fitness, it would be dumb not to move for a FB. And we've just let Taiwo slip away to QPR.

Talked to my friend today, who is a big United fan. I told him that we played well in the 2nd half, but he said we played well during both, and could've walked away with a win or a draw if not for some lapses. Anyway, as fans, I think we want our team to do well so badly that we can be a little harsh. Next week we play Bolton... lets show the Kops how it's done.

I think he was just nice or ironic with you because by half-time Arsenal could have easily been 0-3 it was total domination or humiliation by ManU

BAYH MATHIEU.
No, seriously. Left back, currently at Valencia, competing for the spot with Jordi Alba. Mid-twenties, can also play at LW and DM, and has been capped 1-3 times for France. Contract runs out in the summer. Consistent performer. Why aren't we going after him.

I'll bid for him myself if needed. 

You haven't heard?  Wenger said we have 10 players coming back from injury, and we were just "this" close to beating Man Utd.  We have plenty of players on the squad now. 
If you want a guy with some position flexibility who might be a good fit, why not Vertonghen?  But that's also in the category of things that will never happen.

Please send Arshavin to Lazio in exchange for Zarate they will surely benefit from his amazing talent

Arshavin is not made for wings (CAM!!!)! why isnt this already obvious to the coaches? If Chamberlain really did strain himself, i personally would have subbed him off but for Miquel. Change the formation for a while, 4411 or smthing. I hate the way Arsene Wenger is so unflexible/inflexible/inelastic tactically

Arshavin isn't made for CAM, either. He doesn't have the conditioning to cope with all the running and therefore becomes a major defensive liability. If he wasn't such a little turd of a player, he might get a chance at CAM, but he just doesn't have the workrate.

@JG:disqus lol no mention of Diaby anywhere in this blog. The guy doesn't exist anymore

I like how you say, "what else is there to say?" and then write another 800 words.

I saw a recap and the image that was recorded in my mind was Wenger's head on his knees after an RvP miss. I think if you can have that pic it would very much sum up all the mess... :(

He was sucking your peanut sized schlong.

You are so intelligent (sarcasm).
Man if you are going to make a joke at least try to sound smart.
Read your joke and I dare you to find out what is wrong so it does not douns like a joke.

Say hi to whoever woke you up before they gogo

HAHA no chance Gogo is figuring that out. Also its a shame to take the piss from mentally deranged people who are try and fit into society. Good boy Gogo!! Good boy!! (sarcasm)

There's nothing to be embarrassed about. It's genetics. Nothing anyone can do about it.  No shame in having a little gooner. Hell, 99% of the men from gg's country have the same affliction. Get over it. You gotta work wit it.
Rico? Did you see that beautiful goal Nasri scored on Sunday? You were cheering for him right? Good. I always knew you were a bigger man than that. Nasri played the whole game, right?

so...you've seen those....well, go ahead and go nuts if seeing those makes you happy I am no homophobic! :)

Gogo_boy now? you can't even decide on a name to blog under. Sounds about right though, the key word being "boy". 
"gotta work wit it"? really? Wit is something you will never have.
No, I didn't see the goal but I can tell by your comment you were masturbating furiously to it. Holy shit, he actually got the 90 mins plus extra time? That's a first for a while.

Are you gonna jerk off when Nasri takes the league this year or when he and City shits on the Arsenal again next year? It's better to get pissed off than pissed on, eh Rico-Ratzo?

If I wanted my own comeback I would of kissed your mum. 
HA did you see the Liverpool game this evening? Man City had 1 chance and that was no chance! Behave..... 

Pool will get more silverware this year then we will get in the 15 tears from 2006 to 2021. You and gugu be good little boys. Condolences for gugu's ummm... shortcomings.

Tylenol! Advil! Morphine!
(anything for the pain please)

Remember way back in 2009 when Arsenal were pursuing a player who was regarded by many as one of the top European talents? A player who nearly everyone agreed was a signing Arsenal needed?

Remember when that player put in successive crap performances and was generally crap for quite a while?

Like Homey, I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. That we shouldn't buy players even if we are sucking? That Arshavin deserves more playing time?

I see you have edited your comment.
I'm merely pointing out the frailities of the transfer market, and how quickly our opinions can change.

While most people make fun of other clubs' big signings that have gone AWOL, the story of Arshavin is our very own warning that the transfer market is not a cure-all, be all. 

I don't think opinions on Arshavin have changed quickly. This sentiment has been growing for a while. 

Yes, always a good reason for the boo birds.

I remember a few years ago Eboue was booed by the fans but he showed character and he came back playing a lot better becoming a favorite amongst the fans. Arshavin was booed during a domestic cup last year but since then he hasnt really displayed his best. Football is not only about pure talent it's also about mental strength and character something Arshavin is missing deeply

How many games does he get to be shitty in before any fans are allowed to boo? 10? 12? 38? 

Because booing your own player before he has had a chance to do anything on the pitch it always a great idea. That will surely motivate.
 
Go ahead and boo if you like. It's a free world.

Go ahead and be a fanboy if you like. It's a free world. 

It's a fanboy to think it's absurd to boo your own players?

I defend Arshavin not because I think he is amazing or because he is the best thing since sliced cheese.

I defend Arshavin because the abuse is absolutely horrendous. No matter what the guy does, he is going to get slated. He has his issues and I fully agree with all of them in terms of terrible back-tracking and poor form.

I don't agree with the abuse though. I don't agree with all the grief he gets no matter what, despite other players being just as poor on the other flank but very few are willing to discuss that.

It's interesting to read all the comments and read how everyone has seemingly universally agreed that Arshavin is at fault for the game winning goal, despite him being beaten at the sideline, and then tracked back hard up until the goal to attempt to correct his mistake, and despite Vermaelen and Song doing absolutely nothing to assist the guy in stopping Valencia.
We all know Arshavin is a weak defender, the players have to know it as well, and yet no one assisted him? But by the reaction by most gooners, it's all on Arshavin.

That's why I defend him. It's not Arshavin's fault he being asked to play a position he has never had to in his career and one that requires more work than he has ever been used to.

Is his form deplorable? Absolutely. So shocking that a player can be played out of position and is expected to outperform from what his skill set suggest he can do, and invariably fails. Who would've thought that would happen?

But yea, that's all on him.

Whoa there, cowgirl, take it easy. Did someone beat you up while calling you a fanboy early in your life? 

"It's a fanboy to think it's absurd to boo your own players?"

Nope, I was just responding to your melodrama with some melodrama.

Just tired of the Arshavin debate I guess.

After hosting the liveblog the other day, me too. I almost banned Patoux and Perry. 

should have done that. as a warning to patoux who in all fairness initiates  the shit throwing

What's the point?

Whatever you want it to be Homey. Martin understood it.

Well I mean, is it that we shouldn't be thinking about bringing in another top talent, because the one we brought in a few years ago isn't as good now?  Sorry if I'm slow today... please explain.  Thanks.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Man am I sick of watching Ramsey and Walcott run around and do absolutely nothing positive for the team.  I'm not sure if they are tired and overworked but both have looked awful of late. I know they are both relatively young but I'm starting to think that they really aren't going to get much better....
OC was great, our only bright spot of the day (I don't count Per NOT making a mistake as a bright spot) and that gives me some hope looking forward. He looks like he has the killer instinct that Theo clearly lacks and a work rate right up there with the likes of Jack Wilshere. If he was cramping at the end of the game its because he was busting his ass every second that he was on the pitch. Theo was fairly fresh because he almost NEVER tracks back to help in defense!!  The future is Jack and Ox not Rambo and Theo, hopefully......

WHO DO WE BLAME?

This is the question everyone has been wondering for a while, including myself. I think it's become crystal clear that 95% of the blame should fall in one place...the board. Everything that makes a club starts at the very top and trickles down. If the board actually cared about anything other than profits, they would push Wenger hard to achieve success. 

A football club is not run by the manager. It would seem that Wenger has way too much power at the club, but is that really his fault? Why is there no one at the top with a vision and the balls to make it happen. The entire world can see that our squad in the summer was not good enough, yet there was no attempt to bring in top talent. We could have easily pushed through multiple transfers that would have easily given us the strength to be either 1st or 2nd right now, but we let negotiations and a few extra million pounds stop them dead. We have the opportunity to make those signings now to salvage a season that right now is taking us towards a 5th or 6th place finish, yet we sit on our hands and have lost 3 league games in a row. 

"It would be foolish for us to drop points because of lack of fullbacks" -AW. Guess what, all 3 losses were a direct result of having makeshift fullbacks. 9 points. Why would Wenger say something like that and then not do anything about it. Could it be that the board is refusing to spend the money to push through either and emergency loan signing or permanent signing we need? I'm not saying that Wenger is faultless. He has made numerous mistakes that have led to us being in the position we are in, but do you think he would have made those mistakes if the board had forced him to go out and buy players like Mata, MVilla, and Hazard when we have the money? 

WE HAVE MONEY. WHY ARE WE NOT SPENDING IT!!!!!!!! Especially when having a weak squad could keep us out of the CL next year. The board is only concerned about their own bank account. They have no interest in how the team actually performs. The Silent Stan has only been to one game and he's owned the club for 9 months. Don't even try to tell me he gives a shit about this club.

So, now you agree RvP is gone this summer? The doctor is in the house.

I've had a feeling all along that RVP would be gone in the summer. It's not like we have a good track record for these things...

Especially with players represented by Darren Dein.

Especially with players playing football at the Emirates that become world class, eh? The Doctor posted only 2 short weeks ago that RvP loves the Arsenal and Wenger would do whatever it took to keep him. We all have the right to change our minds, no? 

There's no doubt that RVP loves Arsenal. You'd be crazy to think otherwise. That doesn't mean that he's willing to wait the rest of his short career at Arsenal while we continue to f*ck about and not win anything. If Barca want him, he'd be crazy to stay. Just look at everything Cesc has won in less than a year. It's shitty that he's gone, but in terms of his own professional goals, it was the right decision. I don't doubt that Wenger will do everything he can to keep RVP. His steadfast reluctance to sell both Cesc and Nasri this summer underlines that. Will the board decide to cash in if a big bid comes in? You bet your ass they will.

Agreed with all of it. Most especially "you bet your SWEET ass they will". Even if RvP is willing to stay there is no way Wenger will get the green light to pay him what he will need to in order to keep him.

Wenger is obvioulsly the person to blame. He is following the board orders and not telling the press and the fans what is really going on. To keep everything in the blur and in order to justify the lack of ambition, little spending and bad coaching he's telling bullshit during his press conference. He's probably the only manager of an European major clubs not being under pressure of being sacked despite poor results and dreadful performances. If he had still some respect for the fans (Arsenal wouldnt exist without them) he should put everything on the table and tell what really is the board's strategy ie making money or winning trophies

I disagree strongly. It's not Wenger's job to run the club. You said it yourself "he is following the boards orders" meaning the board are responsible for lack of ambition. Why do you think he hasn't been sacked yet? Maybe because, with almost a negative budget the last 6 years, he's managed to keep the club competitive and continue to rake in the cash for the board. He is not in a position to start airing the clubs dirty laundry. He has had a huge part in making Arsenal what it is today and he wants to bring more success to "his" club. Why else would he have turned down Real Madrid a couple seasons ago? 

He's stupid? And French?

I'm sure he thought long and hard about having the resources to completely destroy Barca...

Only Mourinho/Ronaldo can completely destroy Douchelona, not.

I didn't watch the game, because I was traveling and stupidly forgot to set my DVR before MLSW and I left town for the weekend, but I do find criticism of Wenger's substitution pretty baffling. From what I understand, The OC was cramping badly and asked to be taken off -- what option did Wenger have?

I have to disagree with where you're going here. 
Wenger's exact words were "He (Ox) had started to fatigue.  He was sick earlier in the week."  And then Wenger proceeded to tell us about the 18 year old compared to an international veteran. 
My response is this:
1) Ox was showing no visible signs of fatigue, and just set up the tying goal, and was our best player on the field at the moment.  I think this business about "cramping badly" is post-match exaggeration.
2) If Wenger thinks the comparison is between an 18 year old in his first EPL start versus an international veteran, then why didn't he start the international veteran?  At some point you have to look at what's clearly obvious, which is that Ox is way better at the moment, and certainly was on Sunday. 

On point (1), if that's true, then I agree. I've just read in various places that (a) The OC was cramping, and (b) that he asked the bench to be taken off. If that is the case, not sure how you can fault Wenger for taking him off.

I haven't seen anywhere that AOC asked to be taken off. Here is exactly what Wenger said: 

Oxlade-Chamberlain had started to fatigue, started to stretch his calf, and was not used to the intensity. He was sick during the week. Arshavin is captain of the Russia national team. I have to justify [substituting] a guy of 18 who's playing his second or third game? Let's be serious. I have to stand up for the substitutions I made. I've been 30 years in this job and have made 50,000 substitutions and I have to justify every time I make a decision? I do not have to explain to you every single decision I make.

I don't understand the Frenchman's logic here. He makes a substitution that is almost uniformly seen as costing his team the game and he doesn't feel like he should be asked to explain it? Ox was the best player we had on the pitch. An enormous consensus of fans watching agree with this. And he says that Ox was not used to the intensity? He stretched his calf? Did he pull on his dick too? Maybe he had to pee? He may have made 50,000 substitutions but how many substitutions cost his team the game? Would Fergie, Mourinho, Guardiola, or my fucking grandmother take their best player off the pitch in one of the teams most important games of the year? While the game is tied. And put on one of the teams most consistently poor performers. Ox couldn't go another 15 minutes? Should Wenger have to explain why his team finished outside the champions league positions for the first time in 15 years due to moronic decisions like that substitution? Even Stan wants to know that answer! 

It's possible that Ox was cramping badly and we all missed it, and we should give Wenger a pass on this one.  I won't pretend to know what was going on in Ox's body at that moment. 
However, it's pretty much 100% agreed that Ox's play at the time was terrific, and he at least appeared to look lively.  So with that as the evidence we can see, it's hard to fully understand the "cramping badly" stuff.  I dunno.

Martin and Homey, the fact that RvP appeared to protest Ox's substitution does not lend credence to the "cramping badly allegations". Being the captain on the pitch he would have been the first to know.

Fact is Wenger made the sub, teammates couldnt understand why, the team lost spark and we lost the game. Plain and simple.

Well, as I said, I stupidly forgot to DVR the match and we were driving back from Durham (where we saw Duke lose at Cameron in person) while the match was on, so I didn't see a minute of it, just reporting what I had read elsewhere. You guys saw it and I certainly trust you not to lie about it, so I will defer to you on this one.

I used to miss all the Sunday morning games with church.  Now my church meets in the late afternoons, so I can watch on Sundays.  But at this point, is that a blessing or a curse?  I'd almost rather do something else.  (Sorry if I went off on a tangent there.)

Benayoun.  Hustles more, defends better and has been in much better form.

In hindsight, that is certainly true. But it was a 1-1 match, at home, against our bitter rivals. If we wanted to maintain the 1-1, Benayoun was certainly a better bet. But Wenger thought, and I agree, that Arshavin gave us a better chance to WIN the match -- remember that Arshavin has had several very good assists this month. He rolled the dice, and crapped out. It doesn't necessarily mean that it was the wrong move at the time.

And Benayound scored a winning goal a short while ago. Half a dozen of one, so to speak. Plus Benayoun would offer more protection in front of our fullbacks, which was a big problem all game. 

Ferguson also knew his defensive issues could easily be exploited, and so moved Valencia to right back to take advantage of that.
Wenger was out coached once again by Ferguson, a familiar trend in recent seasons.

So did all the other Managers that came up against us. Can't really give all the credit to Fergie. 

Djourou was specifically targetted the entire 1st half. Who told them to do that? Ferguson.

Three minutes after Arshavin was put on the pitch, Ferguson took off his subbed-on player to place his right winger at fullback. Where Valencia was playing very wide v Vermaelen the entire match, Park was brought on to pull Vermaelen inside and force Arshavin to come back and defend against Valencia. That is exactly where the goal came from.

How can you not credit Ferguson with the win? The win was down to those two tactical spcifications. And this isn't the first match where Ferguson has displayed tactical dominance over Wenger either, he has done it in various ways.

you are spot on here.  the hardest thing to swallow about the game, for me, was how much Ferguson owned Wenger with the tactical change. 

I guess the outcome could have been the other way around, with Arshavin scoring/setting up a winner due to bad defense by Valencia playing slightly out of position, but in the end, Ferguson has had Wenger's number for quite a few years now.

It depresses me.

Easy tiger. I am not taking anything anyway from Fergie for the win, am saying that Fergie isn't the only manager that has exploited our defensive gaps. 

I stated in another post that Evra say blatantly the plan was to go at the flanks. 

Can't disagree with that. For all the things he has done well, I've honestly never felt like Wenger was much of a tactician, and not a guy who can/will make much in the way of adjustments in the middle of a match. Ferguson is a far superior tactician and match coach.

"Wenger is stupid because he only likes unproven kids, not experienced players who are proven winners." - Arsenal fans, up until Sunday

"Wenger is stupid because he subbed off an 18 year-old making his first Premiership start for a 30 year-old captain of his senior international side who has won domestic and European competitions." - Arsenal fans, Sunday

Who was the ManU star-man......easlly....Valencia.  And who was taking care of him, Vermaelen.  Then why no one finds him being the reason why we lost the game?