Arsenal in the Group of Kinda Hard

press conference

http://www.dailymotion.com/vid...

This is satan, why do i have to be approved to comment?? wtf

Take it easy, satan.

Miroslav Satan?

He wouldn't put in the extra effort.

hello

Off subject, Barza won..again.
Cesc played after the 65th minute (dont know exactly when) and scored at 88.
I guess I still feel him as a gunner, since I was happy to see his name (ceci dit, he also feels still, I read he referred to "we" and "us" when talking of Arsenal)

Came on in the 78th I believe, made a fantastic run through to chest down and volley in a beautiful Messi chip. 

Just read that Fiorentina's sporting director has said Montolivo will be sold abroad. And because he's in his last year, he would be cheap-ish. I've read ~10m euros/pounds. More like Pirlo than Cesc, but what an excellent passer of the ball. We would have to play slower and protect him, but I would love to see him in an Arsenal shirt. 

twitter rumours: 

Hazard is a done deal for 30m pounds, says someone's friend in Qatar who knows these things. 

Wenger is confident he'll get Yann M'Vila for 22m pounds.

We've bid under 10m pounds for Cahill. Here's what Wenger had to say about what is becoming tiresome already:

Arsene Wenger has hit back after Bolton manager Owen Coyle labelled a £6 million Arsenal bid for Gary Cahill "worse than derisory". "That number is wrong," Wenger said. "It is completely wrong. I believe every negotiation is between two parties and you only have to sell the player if you are all right with the price. In this case the information is below what has been spoken about You only have to sell the player if you are all right with the price. It is not true. You can believe Gartside or you can believe me. It's not right. It's not the truth. If Gartside can say I am lying I am ready to confront him..."

7 million for Cahill.... Stop low ballin guys... He's English and a decent CB, thus market price should be 17 million 

I'm not sure you actually understand the concept of "market price." This is his last year, so if Bolton don't sell him, they will lose him for zip next summer. With City, United, and Chelsea all set at center back, and Liverpool buying this guy from Uruguay, Arsenal are realistically the only bidder.

As we discovered the hard way from Cesc and Nasri situations, sometimes a team just doesn't get what they think a player is worth. But especially now that Bolton have tipped their hand by getting Boyata on loan from City for the season, I'd be stunned if they don't sell, and I'd be stunned if it were anything more than 11-12 million.

He's gone at the end of next season for free. What do you think Bolton would take for him? 

Can anyone tell me what "Dench" means?

It's DEEENCH. Frimpong uses it like some of us use word, awesome, tight, cool, snap, etc. Older, whiter people would say neato. 

Is there any story about how Frimpong came up with it or is it just totally random? I know he is selling Deeench shirts with some musician, but is there some background to it or is it something like they were just sitting around trying to think up a new word to put on a shirt?

Its Brit slang...cousins and friends use it quite frequently.

Also, writing about it makes me feel like I'm 45 and trying to figure out why kids are using bad to mean good. 

Not a clue. Search twitter for it and it's a bunch of UK kids using it. 

This is quite late in coming, but with actual games--and particularly goals--comes positives to mention:

-Theo Walcott still has a nasty habit of disappearing for long stretches of any given game, but he is getting more consistently involved, and when that happens, he looks so dangerous.  He looks more well-rounded across the field, and his passes (especially) and his runs are a lot more intelligent than they used to be.  If he can stay healthy, he could be our guy to score a-goal-a-game.

-At the same time, I think this depends on RvP staying healthy, as well.  The front-three is shaping up just as I had hoped and talked about time and time again on this board--van Persie deep with the midfielders to draw the defense in, with Gervinho and Walcott available to break its back when the pass comes.

-Good to see that we have a proper left-forward in Gervinho.  Homey made an excellent point recently about his lack of a final ball, and this definitely came out in the game, but I think this will be easy to develop for him considering the abilities he has already mastered.  Hope he doesn't get himself suspended again anytime soon.

-Sagna on the left works, and I thought that, for a brief period in a previous game, so did Vermaelen.  Jenkinson still has a long, long way to go to prove himself, but he's looked far from bad in his few appearances.  Koscielny is emerging as last season's buy of the season (not that he had much competition!).  Two goals conceded in four games is not a bad start for a defense with so many questions surrounding it.

-Wojcech Szczeney--could it be?  Arsenal has a solid goalkeeper?  He has played with TREMENDOUS confidence so far this season.  Forget about the saves--did anyone see his throws out of the back to launch counterattacks?  His play just bleeds leadership sometimes.

The only disappointment--and it is a mild one--is the midfield.  You're never going to lose Nasri (oh, what a shame about him) and Fabregas and have an improved midfield, and Wilshere getting a "setback" in training only worsens the situation.  Ramsey as the main man in the position is not yet convincing--too many errant passes in that area of the field--but his introduction as a consistent starter is fantastic for him, and over the course of the season, should be for Arsenal.  Arsenal currently have three players that, for their downsides, have an upside that is just irresistable--Theo Walcott, Andrei Arshavin, and Aaron Ramsey.  Theo is in form right now; Arshavin is not, but certainly will be at various points in the season; for Ramsey, this is his chance to solidify his position in the team.

Man, I had a long response to this, but it's gone. Bloody hell. I'll try to re-write it: 

Good points all. And nice to have you commenting again. 

1) Walcott is getting better, more consistent, he's thinking more, etc. (this re-writing business isn't easy). 

2) I wish RvP could dribble better, but he's a better passer than he's given credit for. 

3) Gervinho will come good. RvP and Walcott will finish his passes.

4) Sagna is a waste on the left, but our best bet right now. Vermaelen too. His runs forward are better from the middle. 

5) Szcz we can. The kid oozes confidence, and his throwing is top notch, van der Sar-esque. Kicking needs work, but it's a minor point. 

6) A new defender will just provide coverage. A new midfielder is a necessity for us to compete this season. 

Something else is on my mind apparently, but I read point 6 as "a new defender will just provide cleavage."

Too many Women's World Cup matches? Those French women were capital H hot. 

I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but Walcott is not good. He can do one thing and that's run fast. He can get into dangerous positions, but his ball skills are non-existent. Granted, his finish was nice on his breakaway, but I believe there was more than a little luck involved there, as he missed a clean shot on goal from 6 yards out, which is one example of what has become a predictable pattern of blowing chances. RVP was spot-on when he described Gervinho as Walcott with finishing. Can you imagine if Walcott had Gervinho's ball skills? Not for nothing, but I think Gervinho may actually be faster than Walcott. Have the two raced?

How many goals and assists did he get last season? No ball skills? 

I think what Chi Gun means is that Theo doesn't have good dribbling skills which is pretty much fact. He's doing much better with his crosses than just a 2 seasons ago, and his goal scoring record is increasing. Though with the opportunities he's had, I think many expect more goals. I'd say for every 3 GOOD Theo goal scoring opportunities, he probably nails one of them.

I think he means dribbling and shooting skills. And depending on your definition of GOOD, I'd say 1 out of 3 ain't bad. Adebayor needed upwards of 10 to get a goal, and he was a striker. But point taken. 

I was really mad when he missed that goal vs Barza, but he is definitely a good striker and I didnt realize it at the moment, but Wenger gave much more chances to Chamakh. Myabe it s time to have 2 strikers in the field so no one can argue lack of chances, and the best man takes the job of the usual line up.

I know the 4-2-3-1, and all the different variations of the 4-3-3 or five midfielders, is all the vogue now in the football world (and they arguably are superior formations tactically), but I don't see why we can't try going back to a 4-4-2 since we don't have a true CAM at the moment.  It would allow RVP to come collect the ball deeper and we'd have more a target man out of Bendtner, or at least someone to attract attention from the defense and for RVP to play off of.

Or something closer to Villareal's 4-2-2-2, with two central midfielders (Song and Jack) in front of the back two playing possession, spreading it wide to two more advanced wide mids (two of Arshavin, Walcott and Gervinho) and two central attackers running all over the place, filling in attacking holes and playing off each other (two of RvP, Chamakh, Gervinho and Walcott). It requires a high level of fitness, and some very mobile attacking players. 

Great post, thanks for all that info. It is really helpful to undersand where we are at.
I always thought that in UCL there are no little teams (Rubin K is the living proof), as I remember that young Ajax team beating the powerful Milan.

Ours is definitely not the death group, but I think is the trickiest one: seems that Arsenal should go 1st, but we have two champions and one really good coach behind the other (and French as well so beware of mind reading between frenchies!). Actually when I am in my (sorry Perry it will eventually come back) Anti Wenger mood, I could easily cheer for Deschamps to be our coach. Once a UCL finalist with Monaco, Serie B champion in a difficult year with Juve, and a s aplayer won the UCL with Juve and captained really well a team with a brilliant Zizou at the World Cup, the guy is clever.

I just hope the board allows Wenger to buy depth, we really need depth if we are going to compete for all trophies again, and if not I d rather be out sooner than later to focus on the rest. (and even for one trophy the depth is important).

The good thing is that the most difficult one is the 1st, so the soap opera of that wotn be too long, bing bang boom, win or lose or draw, it will be like getting the band aid off the wound, and to focus on the rest of the games.

Wenger is going to make you a loyal believer again, just you wait.

Yah, Lyon causing Madrid trouble over the past few years makes me nervous about taking Marseille too lightly. 

Deschamps has done very well for himself, and I think adapts well to the players he has at his disposal. 

It's interesting that when I wrote my big "Wenger Must Go" blog, I threw out four names of possible replacements.  Our group features two of those names, so their teams will be interesting for me to watch.

If anyone is interested, I was a guest on the Arsenal Review USA podcast this week:

http://nasn.tv/2011/post-liver...

I think my part starts about 25 minutes in. See if you can count the number of times I (a) stammer; and/or (b) give an exasperated sigh about the state of Arsenal.

Nice! and deserved!

I already listened to it, and I lost count on both.  Ha.  Just kidding.  It was good though.  You're not the only fan with exasperated sighs these days.

I'm going to nit pick and say that Barrios isn't a CR-esque winger. Dortmund have an almost identical setup to ours and he's their Van Persie. He's a pretty solid goal poacher. Stays in and around the box. Scores with both feet and head. He doesn't have anywhere near the technique or speed that Ronaldo has.

He certainly plays like CR, with the flair and the dribbling and the falling over and the self-righteous complaining when he doesn't get the free kick. And let's not forget how much of a goal poacher CR can be. But I think you're right, and I was more thinking of his style than his positioning in particular. Thanks for the clarification; that's not nit-picking, that's correcting a clear oversight. Very welcome.

Yes, he may play wide for Paraguay but with Dortmund he is in the CF forward position, with more recently having Lewandowski play in the hole behind him.  They're starting to make a nice pairing this season, playing one two's off each other.

Dortmund's right flank is very well organized and attacking.  Pisczek is a very attacking minded full back (he was originally a forward as a youth player in the Polish league and when first started at Hertha Berlin) who combines very well with Goezte and Blaszczykowski (whom Goezte replaced as the starting right winger last season), exchanging passes down the flank.

I think this group is tougher than you do. Olympiakos is always tough to beat in Athens, so I don't think we can assume we'll win away. Dortmund is excellent, and Marseilles have become perennial powers in France.

I think the good thing is that it's a very deep group -- teams will take points off one another, which means that 8 or 9 points will likely be enough to go through. So if we can just take care of business at the Emirates, we'll be in the knockout rounds. The other good thing is that Dortmund and Marseilles will both get the ball down, play it, and attack us, so we won't have to deal with too many teams just shutting up shop against us. Those wide open games will favor us.

I do think we certainly can, and probably should, go through, but we really can't afford to lose focus in any of these matches. We start off traveling to Dortmund, so we're getting thrown into the deep end right away.

Don't forget Dortmund sold their best player to Real Madrid this summer. They will still be good, but not as good as last season.

I don't expect open, attacking football from Marseille in London, but I haven't seen enough of Dortmund to know how Klopp will approach their trip to us. Their defensive record is impressive, but was built on possession as much as solid defending, from what I understand. I think we can out-play (marginally) them across the park, but the away leg will definitely be very tough.

Yes, it's tough. But without one team dominating the other two, we may have it easier topping the group than we normally would. I think I indicated that Dortmund will be very, very tough, and that Marseille are one of the top clubs in France and will cause us trouble.

Olympiakos really aren't as tough as they used to be. In 2009-10 CL they were second in our group, which was quite weak, admittedly on a strong home record, but beating Standard Liege and and AZ at home shouldn't be cause for too much celebration from them. They then went out after losing both legs of the knock-out round to Bordeaux. In the 2010-11 Europa League they lost on away goals to Maccabi Tel Aviv.

I remembered something about Olympiakos--really an image of excited fans in Greece--when I read this, so I did a bit of Googling, and realized where I saw that image.

For those of you who don't remember, we played them in the group stage, 09-10 campaign.

Arsenal 2-0 Olympiakos, goals from van Persie and Arshavin, 78' and 86' respectively.
Olympiakos 1-0 Arsenal, goal from Leonardo 47'

I remember seeing the second game at one of my favorite bars, and it was a very bad performance from Arsenal.  Maybe that was the crowd.  But, if Arsenal can go there and play the way they can, I have no doubt they can win.

Arsenal had Tom Cruise at left back that game, who was released this past summer.

Kyle Bartley played that game as well, and was the reason Leonardo broke the high line and scored. 
It was a game that matter absolutely nothing, so take it that way

We fielded half reserves in the away leg, after we had almost certainly secured the top spot, so I don't put much weight on the result of that match. 

Just noticed--Albert Rieira plays for Olympiakos.  God, whatever happened to him??  I always thought it was a shame that/how he left Liverpool.  Such a talent.

Odd that he's playing in Greece, when a starting spot in Spain is probably doable for him. 

Martin,
Are you upset by Wenger's statements on the official club website that Bendtner is headed for an exit?  Were you getting your hopes up? 
From my point of view, if we could exchange Bendtner for Cisse from Freiburg, it would be a great thing.  So we'll see.

I am a little bit upset, although he's not gone yet.

I know he has his detractors, and most people don't think he's as good as I do, but here's the thing: he has 45 goals in his Arsenal career (more than anyone else on the current team bar van Persie), which is not bad for a 23 year-old who has never been a regular starter. And if we sell him and don't replace him, where does that leave us? When van Persie gets hurt (and I think it's a when, not an if), we'll be relying solely on Chamakh. If we get the Chamakh of last fall, then I think that's fine, but if we get the Chamakh we've seen for the past 9 months, then that leaves us pretty far up shit creek.

I understand Bendtner's frustration and desire to leave, since he hasn't gotten many opportunities to play, and when he has, so many times it has been out of position for him, but I think unloading him for 8-10 million seems to be selling low and will be detrimental to the team.

I agree, Martin. Bendtner seems like an absolutely perfect fit at this point to back up RVP. RVP will get hurt and his backup will be relied upon to make a significant contribution. I have this feeling that if Bendtner got some regular action at center forward, he would be really good. Chamakh cannot in any way be relied upon to do anything besides help Arsenal's opponents. He may work hard and do a lot of running, but his ball skills are atrocious and he has clearly lost his confidence. He offers nothing. He should just retire and try to find work as a N'avi (from Avatar) impersonator. Even when he was scoring goals in the first half of last season, I thought it was pretty plain to see that he lacked skill. I don't know how he scored those goals, probably luck and the quality of the guys around him. But it would be criminally naive to expect him to start scoring like that again.

The key thing you wrote is the phrase "if we sell him and don't replace him."  I certainly hope Wenger wouldn't be that dumb, especially after loaning Vela and publicly saying that we'll need to buy another striker.  So as I mentioned, if we sell Bendtner and buy Cisse, I'm pretty happy.  But if we just sell Bendtner and pocket the money, then not so much.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but for that to happen, in the next FIVE days: (a) Arsenal must negotiate a deal to sell Bendtner; (b) Bendtner will agree personal terms; (c) Arsenal will identify and negotiate a deal to buy another striker; and (d) agree personal terms with that striker.

Given the pace at which Arsenal have conducted their business this transfer window, I have very little confidence that all that can happen in this short time period.

Correct.  Thus, the exasperated sighs from both of us.  I have no idea why we're waiting around, trying to low-ball for Gary Cahill at the 11th hour, still sorting out what we'll do with regard to multiple targets and a few from our own team who might be sold.  Wenger does realize the window closes in five days, right?

Olympiakos has been a very weak club the last couple of years, the weakest club by some distance in this group.

Marseilles, while a perennial power in years past, who do they have now?
Dortmund is a scary club, but an exciting match up. 

Arsenal had arguably the weakest group last year and managed to come 2nd. This will be some good football, looking forward to it.

Agree about Olympiakos. They are garbage, and their record in Greece is inflated because the Greek league is horrendously weak.

Marseille have a pretty solid team, including those players I listed above (Ayew, Valbuena, Gignac, etc). They do very well at home, and have enough talent to cause us trouble in London. 

Yes, I'm not as much worried about not advancing, but I am concerned about finishing 2nd behind Dortmund.  And then as Brenton mentioned, getting drawn with the likes of Barca or Real Madrid, etc.

Possible foes if we place second: 

Bayern
Madrid
Porto
Barca
Milan
Inter
Valencia

That's not good. 

If we think Arsenal as some serious problems at the back, what can we say about Marseille? They built their title in 2010 on their defense, they lost it last year because of their defense... They have lost Heinze and Taiwo, replace them by Morel who currently is clearly not at the level expected, and Nkoulou, a young Cameroon from a side ( Monaco ) which was relegated. They have a great keeper in Mandanda, a great striker in Rémy labelled for years as the new Henry - which he will never be, but still great. Lucho, a typical Argentina's player, one gear, but great technique and ability to create chances. Valbuena was NEVER linked to Arsenal, is agent made that up, he tries to sell his players for now 3 years, it appears nobody want him. If everybody's playing well, he will be on the bench. One to watch is Aye, he is being played as a winger but is a central midfield, a kind of Wilshere, left-footed. Only 21 years old, really great prospect. So as his young brother, Jordan, 19y, who will back up Rémy for the striker position. Gignac is a joke, made international by Domenech, not a threat at all, will probably sit on the bench.

To sum up, if Arsenal is solid at the back, then for sure they will beat Marseille.

The press have painted themselves into a corner with the constant stream of negativity and as a result they can’t write an objective news story about Arsenal anymore. Martin Samuel’s column in the Mail is the worst example of this. He actually goes out of his way to say that Udinese are a terrible team and that Arsenal should have beaten them by more. It’s incredible, really, the abuse that is being heaped upon this club, the players, and this manager. You know that something is deeply wrong when Sir Alex Ferguson is telling the press to lay off Arsene Wenger. All the more reason we should circle the wagons.

This comment was plagiarized verbatim from another Arsenal blog. Just sayin'.

Are you saying you read other Arsenal blogs?!?

Haaaaaaa

The group is seriously tricky here..... German champs. Greek champs, French runners up. Last season we made the mistake of going to the away leg thinking it was in the bag. I hope we don't do this this time as we will have similar problems. Utd should finish top. Chelsea should finish top. Citeh should finish top. I know this doesn't count as we won't face them anyway, but it shortens our options with us probably getting drawn against Barc, Madrid etc. So, win the group and make things potentially easier.

City's group is the toughest, and I don't think they'll top it. The experience of their top players should help them (Toure, Silva, etc) but Bayern, Napoli and Villareal all have the potential to take points off them. 

Still haven't signed anyone have we ? Wenger's promises are looking more and more empty. Qualifying for the CL is good but if you make no effort in signing players to compete in it then it becomes clear what your motives are - not that it isn't obvious - Arsenal just want the money that comes with with the competition - competing to win is not on the agenda just money money money - you will see that by the the end of the transfer window...

Check out Martin's new site: martinonmondays dot com. His last piece examines the four situations we need to sort out this month: Udinese, Nasri, Man U away, transfers. And so far we're doing well. A draw away and two transfers in and I'm a happy camper. 

Yeah, honestly, regardless of what happens at Man U, if we can just get some quality players in at the right spots, I think we can look back at what has been a crucial fortnight period as being very successful for the club, and breathe a big sigh of relief.

What do you think of our reported 21m offer for M'Vila? He's done very well for Rennes, a team that has competed for the French title the past two seasons. 

I always beg out of these conversations, because I honestly don't watch much other than Premiership, MLS, and Champions League. People on Twitter and blogs always talk about who is good and who isn't, but either they (a) have way too much time on their hands, if they are actually familiar with players from 7 different leagues; or (b) are b.s.ing about how much they know. That's not me -- other than maybe an odd France international match or two, I don't think I've ever actually seen the guy play.

I'll just say this -- Wenger's problems has never been being poor at talent identification, it's been at spending money to get the talent he wants. If he likes M'Vila, and thinks he's worth 21 million, then I am actually fairly confident that that means that he's a quality player who would be a very good fit at Arsenal. Hope we get him.

Have you considered yet how cool it would be if Arsenal bought Marvin Martin, and then you bought a shirt with "Martin" on the back?  I guess if Arsenal ever buys a player whose last name is Homey, I'm buying a shirt right away.

I'm glad you said that, because I feel the same way most of the time.  I'm really just handy with a calculator, and that's about it. 

Yah, same, though I watched more Ligue 1 games last season than ever, and have had way too much time on my hands at points over the past year (yay short-time contract work). I hadn't even heard of Marvin Martin, for instance, and am quite surprised when people suggest he'd be a good replacement for Fabregas. 

You should have watched him play for France in the couple of friendlies they played lately.
He looked composed and comfortable with the ball. He came off the bench vs Ukraine and scored two goals. Not bad for a début, huh?
Then he started and did well against Poland. You couldn't really tell that it was his second match for national side. He is considered a hot prospect in France and I think he would be a good addition for Arsenal.

Good news. What I've read has been good. And Sochaux were a decent team last season.