Assessing the Damage From Champions League Defeat

@Martin
If you are in real life like what you are here you are one level headed person. Last year when Barcelona lost to Inter I didnt think about football for a month probably( and boy didnt Biscuit man deserve it for what he did). All the more surprising to see your behaviour.

One last parting shot, as I'm sure you're getting sick of culés invading your place - a great, short piece de-bunking the English myth that Barcelona gets help in the Champions League.
http://eircomsports.eircom.net...

Stop using twitter to post bullshit about movies and the wire so that I dont have to unfollow. Why don't you start a new twitter account for things not arsenal?

Oh... Please

Over the 2 legs, 2 penalties not given for Barca, one goal from Messi wrongly disallowed for offside - and Wenger seriously blames the ref?
Van Persie tells the ref was a complete joke, only whistling for Barca?

As a fan, I would be ashamed of these comments. Just like Martin said, Arsenal are about to turn into cry-babies.

0 goal attemps from a team that is renowned for its offensive qualities, that is actually supposed to be the 2nd-best offensive team of the world? I would be mad at the way you approached the match... you kind a betrayed yourselves.

And why did neither Cesc nor Wenger learn from the mistake of forcing a player to play through the pain (as you did last year)? I know Cesc is probably obsessed with playing at the Camp Nou (I don't mean for Barça, I just think he wanted to showcase his talent to the Catalan fans), but now Cesc is out for another 2 weeks, he will miss the FA Cup match against ManUtd - and for what? He was not even close to his usual best, you might have been better off with Arshavin or someone else.

One bright spot?
Fabergas unlikely to be wanted by Barca after very poor display?

Mommy, Daddy, FA Cup please, apparently we have moved on, but people havent :P

Barca players critisizing arsenals play in post match comments (source daily mirror paper)

Barcelona superstar Xavi last night stuck the boot in on Arsenal following their Champions League showdown.

The Barca squad were left upset as Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger claimed his players were unlucky and blamed their European exit on Swiss referee Massimo Busacca for sending off Robin van Persie.

Spain midfielder Xavi said:

* Arsenal only came to the Nou Camp to defend,

* Were outclassed in both legs of the tie,

* Van Persie deserved to be sent off even before he got his marching orders.

"If you look at the two games, the only thing that let us down was our ability to take our chances. Everything else was spectacular," said Xavi. "We dominated the first leg and the second leg. Arsenal hardly had a shot on goal in the second leg.

"Van Persie could have been sent off before, for the incident [a foul on Dani Alves that saw the Arsenal man booked] in the first half.

"The referee decided that it was Barcelona's ball; he kicks it out and the rule says that is a card. That helped us dominate the game even more, but we were practically the same when it was 11 against 11.

"We stayed on the attack throughout. The truth is we dominated Arsenal - a team that normally want to have the ball and want to attack, but Barcelona did not let them. We were superior as much in the second leg as in the first game.

"It surprised us a bit that they did not play with more joy, more attacking flair. They had a one-goal advantage and they set themselves up to protect that but, it did not work out for them. We dominated and we could have finished the game sooner.

"The result is not really a real reflection of the tie over two legs - we dominated the first game as much as the second."

Barcelona's former Liverpool midfielder Javier Mascherano joined in.

"It would have been unjust if they went through without having a single shot on goal," he said. "We won 3-1, but it could have been four or five.

"It seems Barca never win because of its football, its passes, its possession; no, it's always because of the referee."

Barcelona's Sergio Busquets, who scored an own-goal after moving from midfield to play in central defence because injury and suspension ruled out Carles Puyol and Gerard Pique, also criticised Arsenal's approach.

"If anything should disappoint them, it is not the ref but how little ambition they showed at the Nou Camp," he said.

"That is the question they should be asking themselves - why did they come here only to defend when they're a team that likes to have the ball and play and attack?"

Arsenal are the first team to fail to attempt a single shot in any game in the Champions League, the Europa League and the top five European domestic leagues this season - FACT

wrong. its worse.

ARSENAL have become the first Champions League side to have NO shots at goal during a game.

That damning fact has emerged for Arsene Wenger's side following their 3-1 defeat at Barcelona on Tuesday.

Stats gurus Opta have kept detailed records for eight years and the Gunners have recorded a miserable new low.

An Opta spokesman said: "There have been 981 Champions League games since 2003-04 and Arsenal are the first of 1,962 sides not to manage a shot of any form in a match since then."

It is an amazing statistic which confirms Arsenal's lack of ambition - before and after having Robin van Persie sent off for time-wasting in the second half.

Wenger tried to blame Swiss ref Massimo Busacca for the defeat after Van Persie's controversial 55th-minute red card.

But Barca's ex-Liverpool star Javier Mascherano told Wenger to stop being 'stupid' - and to give Barca the praise they deserve for their display.

Mascherano said: "It was very strange to me that it was 1-1 at one stage even though they didn't have a shot.

even beat inter last year who had 10 men for 75mins but still had 3 shots on goal + more possession.

As a die hard arsenal fan, I have to say we are the one to blame on that defeat. Arsene got it wrong by trying to play defensive footbal to protect our lead. We are not known as the best defensive team, in fact considering the record we have (vs Newcastle) we are amongst the worst. And that was a totally wrong approach and mentality coming to nou camp against arguably the best ever Barca side... Gunners for life

http://yfrog.com/h6bkdvtj

okay then THAT deserved another yellow

27:06

I'd like to see the replay of this incident. I genuinely don't remember it.

That's your boy Van Persie right there. I will watch the match again tomorrow and tell you when it happened. I can see why you guys are all upset, before the card it was 1-1 and you guys were going through, but I don't know why everyone has to hate the Barcelona players. They love their team and so do the Arsenal players. I bet no one would have been pissed if Clichy flopped like Dani. You would look down upon it, but you wouldn't hate the player. I personally don't approve of some of Barcelona's diving; the players I'm refering to are Alves and Busquets, even though Busquets and Dani have cut that crap out since the beginning of the season. Arsenal overall was just poor last night. Victor Valdes made 11 pases, more than Van Persie (7) , Nasri (9), and Arshavin (5). Let's put this matter to rest and move on. Football is the most unfair sport in the world sometimes but that is why we love it. If Fifa applied replies into the beautiful (and frustrating game) a bunch of the magic would be lost.

I would be pissed if Clichy flopped like Alves. Just like it annoys me everytime Eboue dives.
Just because they play for my club, doesn't mean I have to like them. I just hope they do well and don't ask like pricks on the field, and shame the badge.

I agree, moving on is best.

Xavi is Xavi, i hate that last line though.

And UEFA opened disciplinary actions to AW and Nasri. WTF.
decision is on march 147

I am gutted but:

I think its a good thing, the Gunners must now stand up and shut everyone up, they have to see now that almost every possible nightmare can come true, and the only way that we can cope with Spurs winning the UCL /yeah odds and so forth but what were the odds of them advancing and us staying?), well its to win the FA and EPL.
Period.

Here's my quick Barca-fanboy take - Xavi does get too far into the "style-of-play-as-religion" thing, and those who don't play like Barca are immoral. I wish he wouldn't, but he does, and he's not going to stop. Frankly, I didn't think you parked the bus as bad as some are saying. We had a lot more space than we do when we play Chelsea, for example. As the article says, it's extremely difficult to get the ball off us, and that results in all the players on the field being in a small area. And sometimes that turns into a bore. But anyway, onto RVP and the ref. We were better than you. Over 180 minutes, it wasn't even close. RVP wasn't going to stop us from scoring those two goals. He's a great player, his goal in London was fantastic, I couldn't even be upset about it. If you can pull that off, congratulations. But if you don't have the ball, he's not giving you anything, and we weren't giving you the ball. To me, saying the ref stopped you from going through is childish. You were thoroughly outplayed. And we can point out things the ref missed for us as well, or dives taken by Arsenal gentlemen. So why play that game?

bARZA OUTPLAYED US IN THE 1ST LEG AS WELL AND HE MANAGED TO SCORE AN IMPOSSIBLE GOAL....BEFORE THE SENT OFF ARSENAL WERE THROUGH, AT 10 MEN BARZA MANAGED 13 OUT OF 19 SHOTS...JUST SAYIN...

It's not the RvP sending off that bothered me the most, it was the horrendous scissor tackle that Alves committed on Nasri that the ref deemed not worthy of even blowing his whistle!!! That "non call" set the rest of the game in motion, RvP was fired up and retaliated against Alves seconds later (granted this was a mistake, but understandable sticking up for a teammate when the ref won't) and got him his first yellow. Every Arsenal challenge drew a whistle or card and many Barca tackles went uncalled. It makes a tough task just about impossible.

Felegy, not to beat a dead horse at this point, but look a this tackle on Messi by RVP in the 28th minute... nowhere near the ball and ironed his cleats right on ankle.

http://yfrog.com/h6bkdvtj

That alone, if not that and the Dani tackle should have seen him off before the half.

This is comparing apples to oranges, the example you provided is just a mistimed tackle due to Messi being so great on the ball (one second the ball is there the next second his ankle is there instead). The Alves tackle on Nasri was malicious, following through with his second leg after he had already knocked the ball away. The purpose of that type of tackle is to hurt or injure a player. Much different than a mistimed tackle.

Just a mistimed tackle!? Look at the replay. RVP must have the worst timing in the world for that to be a mistimed tackle. Right on the ankle. When the ball is nowhere near him.

That is intent to injure, and it is malicious. 9/10 that tackle gets a card. RVP should have been off very early in the match.

I really wis you Barza fans undesrtand; it is the chance.
iF rVp WASNT SENT OFF AND YOU D MANAGE TO WIN, OK, NO ARGUMENTS.
bUT THE REFEREE JUST GAVE THAT "WHAT IF" TO US.
lOOK, ALL THE BAD CALLS OF THE WORLD IN THIS GAME, BUT THERE WAS JUST one RED CARD.
BEFORE THAT WE WERE GOING THROUGH...AND THERE IS THE WHAT IF.
SORRY didnt mean the big letters, I am just writing under a bad light.

It's ok, I read through it. There were a lot of bad calls in the two legs. The RVP red card was the worst in its harshness, but not the worst in its impact on the result. The onside goal of the first leg and the Messi penalty in the second leg would have put this tie to bed long before that call. If we had lost, we could have pointed to those mistakes and we would have had a better argument than Arsenal as to who "wuz robbed".

Keep in mind as well that by the letter of the law, those calls that went against us were clearly refereeing errors. *By the letter of the law,* RVP should have received a second yellow card for that kick.

Seriously, now, I don't wish to discuss this further, especially in an Arsenal blog where you folks probably just want to move on and focus on the upcoming FA Cup match.

Not the worst in terms of the impact on the result?? well, of course you dont want to discuss further, with that line it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion mte,

How nice. Now look at all your players choking ours. CHOKING THEM. No cards whatsoever.

http://twitpic.com/47w69k

And don't even get me started on Alves' antics and constant diving yesterday.

OK, but then what about the penalty on Messi in the first half? Or the penalty we should have had in London? Or what about the Wilshere B.S. in the first half that the ref let go? For me, it doesn't make sense to play that game. My philosophy is that you take what the ref gives you and do everything you can in the situation that's handed to you. When Inter had a man sent off last year at Camp Nou (shamefully for us, that was Busquets' peek-a-boo moment rolling on the pitch), they played much better because they focused in and knew what they had to do.

Really it comes down to who wins and who loses, and to often the loser wants to talk refereeing. I'm not just referring to Arsenal people, any team can do it. We've certainly done it. Hell hath no fury like a Xavi scorned. If we'd lost to Chelsea, we'd have been complaining about the absurd sending-off of Abidal. That was by far the worst call in that match at the Bridge, but how many remember it?

About Xavi comments: winning games is not about how beautiful your team play but the ability to convert your chances and being decisive defensively. You may be the best team in the world on paper but you can always lose against a supposed inferior opposition and that's the beauty of sport. Otherwise don't even bother to play the match and just give them the trophy. Justice and fairness in football? He seems to forget many dodgy decisions going Barca's way in the last few years like the Chelsea game which was probably one of the greatest unfair result in CL history.

I still think that if the ref had been perfect in BOTH LEGS! Barcelona would have gone through.

of course your gonna say that, every fan of their team is biased !!!
everyone reading this blog, keep this in mind.
barca have never really played against us at full strength at the camp nou.
last years away leg, we had cesc,persie,walcott out
this game, lost the keeps, persie sent off, cesc was coming off injurt, no walcott.
so really its never been PERFECT for barca fans to say your better than us. infact we are equal. the only thing that makes barca better is their way of making the ref feel he has to award them when their players DIVE constantely

Maybe, and just maybe,
But the ref did you no favour in sending off RVP.
If he had stayed and you d won...no argue, fair and square.
But before the red card, we were going through and you werent...see?

While you are perhaps correct, it doesn't make the decisions any better.

heads up guys. you played well in the first leg at least. and as a supporter of both teams i really hope arsenal can still go on to win the league; they really deserve it. barca did play better but that sending off for rvp was bullcrap.

God a supporter of both Arsenal and Barcelona?

Mostly everyone supports a team in every league but a general one where their hearts are with forever. For footy fan like for me, my alliance is with La Liga( where I have actually seen live) but I support Arsenal to win EPL, Napoli in the Serie A, borussia Dortmund in Bundesliga,Lyon for the French League, New York Red Bulls in MLS, Celtic in the SPL,SC Braga in the Portugese League and many more..etc..

I'm not criticizing you at all. Honestly, I'm not. Because I think you are right that a lot of people do (at least on Twitter) follow a number of different teams in different leagues.

My question is always just: how the hell do you have time for it? I guess the blog skews my perspective because it takes up so much time, but if I tried to follow another team with anything near the attention I give to Arsenal, I'd get fired and dumped, and would end up dead in a gutter within 6 months. I'm just always amazed at people that have a team in every league, because I don't understand how it works.

Sairax, I think he's trying to tell you something.

Haha. Hardly. I had Red Bulls season tickets when I lived in New York and followed them, and readers know that I am pretty fanatical about the New York Mets and College of Charleston basketball. But I just don't understand how people follow 10 teams in 10 different leagues. I mean, if each of those teams play twice a week, and each game is 2 hours, then that's 40 hours of football a week that the teams you support are playing? Do you support teams but not watch them, or do you just spend half your waking time watching football?

Yes, the support is definitely passive. Or at least I'd hope. I call myself a Rangers fan. But I think the last game of theirs I watched was their UEFA final against Zenit, who featured some guy named Arshavin.
Anyway, by my "fandom" of Rangers, I mean I keep up with their results, transfers, position in the table, etc. And I try to watch some highlights when possible. That's about it. I think it's still enough to say I "follow" them, right?

I think that means you look at the results ;)

I think it's probably fairly passive. I pay attention to all major leagues, and each year end up paying a bit more attention to one or two clubs in each. This year, for instance, I'm interested to see how Athletic Bilbao and Real Sociedad do, and I try to catch a game or two and read the match reports. But it's not like I spend tons of time on it.

Fucking hell, Spurs-Milan finished 0-0 and teh Spurs are going to the quarterfinals of the Cl. Remember when Defoe said he thought Spurs would out-perform Arsenal in the CL, way back in August? Remember how most everyone, myself included, laughed at him for saying such a ridiculous thing? Yeah well, look who is laughing now. Gareth Frakking Bale, that's who. I swear, if we don't win the EPL this season I feel an implosion coming over the Arsenal-verse.

They can keep laughing next year when they're in the Europa League.

hope sPURSS AND bARCA ASS get kick by other teams. remember last year how mourihino inter Milan literally "demolished" barca. hope the same thing happens to barca

Yep, I prefer Moneybags and missing out on the Schadenfreude of Chelsea missing out of the CL than Spurs becoming an actual contender/powerhouse.

advanced through a much weaker team i.e. weakened tired ac milan. unfortunately that wouldn't stop them from bragging.

The Martin's second favorite team just advanced...

Yeah. I don't really care too much either way, I'm not bothered that they advanced, and it's not like I'm any great fan of AC Milan.

What is funny, though, is that they sang "Are you watching, Arsenal?" after they won. What's even funnier is that a lot of Arsenal fans on Twitter were talking about how classless and small-time it was of them to be so obsessed with us, ignoring the obvious irony that by tweeting about what they were singing, they were showing themselves to be just as obsessed with Spurs. Ah, the tangled web we weave, etc.

But honestly, I just don't much care what they do when it doesn't affect us. Someone earlier on Twitter threw out the following hypothetical -- would Arsenal fans take Spurs winning the Champions League if it meant Arsenal won the league? The consensus seemed to be a rousing "HELL NO," but I don't know, I think I probably would take it. Yes, it would be really annoying for another London team, especially Spurs, to win the Champions League before we did, but honestly, do people hate them so much that they would rather see Arsenal not win? It really seems like some people hate Spurs more than they actually like Arsenal.

Oh do me a fricking favour. Are you seriously suggesting that if Spurs had got knocked out the night before and then Arsenal went through your fans wouldn't be singing 'are you watching Tottenham' to rub our noses in it? The fact is we are local rivals and are obsessed with each other because each others fans are all around us every day and bragging rights is a big deal. I had a glance on here after your defeat to Barcelona and half the messages were, bizarrely, having a go at Tottenham who had nothing to do with anything that night. So you are right about the tangled web, certainly.
If I were an Arsenal fan I would pick myself up after this and realise you are very much on to win the double this year, which can't be bad.

if spurs won the cl, i would only enjoy it if they beat barca. many more reasons to dislike barca than spurs in my opinion. the general arrogance and theatrics. Im not really a fan of the expectation of hatred towards spurs, regardless of who they are or what they do.. they dont have any hateable players and they play pretty decent football.. they havent come out with anything to offend arsenal, unless you are easily offended by standard banter between fans.. I would rather they didnt win the CL but i dont have any hatred for them, if just because i support arsenal we're somehow expected to hate them

As long as they beat Manchester United in the most heartbreaking of ways... I'll take it. But then again, I'm far, far away from London.

Screw that, I don't want them winning CL before us. (Not that this hypothetical situation would even ever come up in real life)

Yeah, no, never please, that d be so ...twisted.
But I can only find shelter in the wings of winning the league, please gunners, please....

Total fantasy. Spurs will never win the Champions' League.
On the other hand, we can win the Premier League.

Looking ahead, I'm just not sold on Almunia. Sorry, but any Arsenal fan who watches the games on a regular basis can tell you Almunia will have 1 great game and then 10 mediocre-to-shitty games thereafter. Wojo wasn't particularly great in any of the matches he played, but aside from one mistake in the CC final, he was consistently good and of course, had the confidence. I'm praying he's fine or that Flaps magically comes back and saves us all.

Anyone notice Diaby trying to calm Van Persie after he had been choked( by Abidal(?))? The irony is too much!

hey lets start talking about the FA cup, pleaaaaseeee

So I guess Rosicky didn't have a concussion? I hope.

Gratuituous plug -- if anyone is interesting in playing fantasy MLS, you should check out Arsenal Offside blogger emeritus Travis Clark's Week 1 preview over at ESPN.com.

http://games.espn.go.com/fc-ma...\week1preview

Travis is really doing great, between this and handling a lot of the college/youth coverage and I think all of the DC United coverage over the official MLS site.

I forgot to post the link to the 2 chokes on Nasri http://goonersdream.tumblr.com...

Also, I hope Bendtner has many sleepless nights over that goalscoring opportunity.

Do you really believe Valdes was choking Nasri?. He is trying to console him. But Nasri is too angry and pushes him away. Check the reaction on Valdes's face after he is pushed away.

Well this will be the last time I will try to say otherwise. Everyone has a right to an opinion. I think you are just taking things out of context and misunderstanding. I thought people were more objective. I understand the feeling to show you were wronged. You were wronged and there are no second statements about that.
I also agree that the way some barca players dived was terrible. It leaves a very bad taste. But dont you think you are taking things too far by delibarately trying to misintrepet(or so I feel) and malign people?
All said and done I understand that being objective in misery(no sarcasm) is difficult but then we always hope.

pretty obvious that the ref saw the choke.
look at them, those barca fellas have a neck fetish, so much neck caressing going about.

It was a terrible decision by the ref to send RVP off. No sane person could dispute that. However, I blame RVP for this all the way. Everyone knows that officiating in soccer is so bad as to be nearly ruining the sport. (I have some buddies I have tried to get interested in soccer and the officiating has completely turned them off the sport.) RVP knew this going into the game, so it became his responsibility to mind his p's and q's. Before his first yellow, he got into it with the Barca players and clearly lost his composure. The Barca players saw this and quickly identified him as vulnerable to taking a yellow. Sure enough, the first opportunity for contact with RVP thereafter saw the Barca player go flailing. I don't think RVP deserved that first yellow, but I am not at all surprised he got it because he put a target on his back by losing his cool moments earlier. And that target remained on his back for the rest of the game. I submit that the second yellow RVP received would not have been a card at all if he had not earlier lost his cool.

Look, the officiating in this tie was horrible, but not partial. Both teams got great calls and both teams got horrible calls. Arsenal should know going into these games that they will be walking on eggshells with these egotistical, Napolean-complex refs on permanent power trips. They need to be sure not to give these refs a reason to fuck them. And RVP did just that.

As for Wenger's criticism of the officials after the game, I can get behind that. Maybe it seems petulant, but we have no reason to believe that his motivation for that criticism was not to convince his players that the refs are to blame, thereby maintaining player confidence. Perhaps the criticism was motivated by a desire to hog the media spotlight in hopes of keeping that spotlight off the players. If that's the case, who gives a damn about appearances?

Finally, I think the players should simply never talk to or about officials. Officials are prone to bias towards particular players just like any other human would be. We saw this recently in the NHL, where the head disciplinarian for the league sent out emails demonstrating clear bias against individual players, calling certain guys divers or crybabies. The behavior of RVP and Nasri and the tweets of Wilshere could very well give future officials an itchier trigger finger with respect to these guys. Players: Shut up and play. Nothing good ever comes from criticizing officials.

It's also very hard to get the ball when the ref whistles at you every single time you try to take the ball away from a Barca players.

BTW, 13 of Barca's 19 shots on goal came AFTER the sending off. Don't tell me the sending off didn't influence the game.

Ok, looking ahead for a moment, rather than looking back, I wonder what everyone thinks we should do on Saturday in the FA Cup. There could be a couple of different thoughts:
1) Rest anyone with any injury issues (Song, Cesc, RvP), plus anyone with an adequate backup (Gibbs for Clichy, etc). The thinking here would be that we're likely to lose anyway. And even if we advance, there's still a lot to do. If Man Utd advance, they'll have 3 competitions to deal with, while we'll have only 1. We should have a leg up in winning the league.
2) Focus all our energy on at least getting a replay, knowing we "just" have a game against West Brom coming up, and that's a week later. Then there's an international break coming up. So even if we wear out a few players, or risk re-injury, it's worth the risk. We could still win the double if we can get past this one game.

Hmmm... both thoughts have some appeal to me, but I think I'm more with #2.

Screw it. I really want to win the game on Saturday. Hell, I'll even take the replay. And you know I hate replays.

(Mancs have to play Marseille next week so they might rest some people. Also, Nani has been ruled out for a month)

I agree. To hell with the FA Cup. Focus on the league.

Losing a game is never good for confidence especially against our biggest rival. Some people said the same thing about the Carling cup like it's a mickey mouse cup when we lost the final but it's just an excuse for lack of ambition. And I remember Wenger saying they had the quality in the team to compete in all 4 competitions.

@Sairax

Can you please post the link where you read about Xavi's comments. If he has commented about the sending off then he is a douche bag nothing more nothing else.

Though I should not defend someone who I do not personally I will say this much - if you have followed Xavi's life on the field and off the field it does not fit into his character. I agree he is very opinionated about how football should be played and that is being rather dogmatic as each person has his conception of how to play football. But apart from his irritating comments about footbal philosophy I have not heard of him commenting this way on other issues.
ANd then there is this problem of translation. All the translation I see are usually not faithful and dont cretainly reflect what has been said.

But again I can be wrong. I just want clarification.

Maybe the official website has it in catalan, I'm not sure

Well the official website also has it in English and it doesnt read exactly like the version you quoted. I dont know what to believe. I have seen translations by normal people and the translations which come out in the press. There is a big world of difference. I guess people dont find it interesting if it is honest.

In this partcular case I dont know what is the truth. But I think you should be a little more careful if you are following popular press

Do you have the link to the quote you saw on the site? I'll approve it in moderation.

I did give a link. Click on his name before the quote "Xavi"

how come we don't play the first game as away (at nou camp) for the second year in a row? i think it would be interesting to see how we in our current form would have coped with Barca first away and then at the emirates.

That goes back to our meltdown in group play. The 2nd place finishers are the road team in the 2nd leg by rule.

Okay, I'm done talking about the refereeing stuff. Let's just hope AC Milan demolishes the Spurs at WHL today, because that would be really funny.

Yes, sometimes the better team doesn't win. Sometimes the inferior side of the night (aka Us) is gifted an away goal, and still don't qualify. Welcome to the world of football.

We would no doubt have had more of a chance with RVP still on the field from the 55min~, but unlike most fans I think unfortunately for RVP, he let the game get to his head and cost us. He needs to keep his cool in these kind of situations. The call was harsh, but RVP heard the whistle, or I at least assume he did, considering how off-balance and frankly lazy our first supposed chance was. If he wasn't going off for that, maybe going for Messi's ankle: *http://yfrog.com/h6bkdvtj

Kos would have gone off if VP hadn't already. We were fortunate not to have more penalties called against us, and witness a lack of finishing on par with our own selves sometime. I couldn't believe the end score was just 3-1. It was all a bloody mess. It's too bad the 1st leg result gave us so much hope, but to me the league is always a first priority. Now that we can focus on that and the FA cup, I can definitely see us picking up one or both trophies.

Barcelona have excellent control at "piggy in the middle" which translates into some impressive passing during the game and of course great goals via Messi....but they are also suspect in defence as shown by how easily Wilshere dispossessed their left back in the lead up to Bendtners chance...but I stopped listening to anything Xavi and Iniesta say a long time ago...great players but prize tools....

xavi ok, but iniesta is one of the nicest dudes in football...

I think a lot of us think that the sending off was decisive, as well as two Barza fans I already spoken to today.
Its frustrating because at that point we were through (didnt know that until reading some of you) and RvP was the guy to be there.

And then come the comments from Xavi, it is difficult to like them after all this.

Exactly and how many times have we seen the better team lose? Oh right, the first leg. In every sport on this planet, there is no guarantee nor are you somehow priviledged to win just because you are the better team. The better losing happens ALL the time, especially when they can't capitilize on chances...hell, Arsenal is a perfect example of that.

On an optimistic note, http://soccernet.espn.go.com/c...
this is encouraging. very much so, in fact.

Really, is there any tougher challenge in the world of club football than an away match to Barcelona ? I still maintain our defence did really well to keep them out for 47 minutes. Despite their possession, Barca were impotent in front of goal for much of the match (Messi and Xavi did score brilliant goals though, credit due). But the more I see of Dani Alves, the more I dislike him as a player. Little shit-stirrer.
But we were back in it after the own-goal, only to be scythed down by THAT stupid decision.
Personally I hope UEFA do discipline AW and SN (and why not RvP for his comments too ?). It will keep the focus of attention for a little longer on how far up their own arses UEFA really are, and the lengths they will go to defend the blatant displays of incompetence within their own officials. UEFA, FIFA they are one of a kind.

And on the charges against Wenger and Nasri, it's disappointing (I was also disappointed that Wenger's handshake comment to Guardiola was "tell the referee congratulations from me," which just seems petulant to me).

But we don't know all the facts yet, so it would be premature to rush to judgment. But if you believed that Drogba should have been punished after the Barca semifinal 2nd leg two seasons ago (and I did) for his post-match behavior towards the ref, it seems like we at least have to face the possibility that Wenger and Nasri may deserve punishment which might see them miss a few matches in next year's Champions League (again, this is still all allegations at this point -- unlike Drogba, we don't actually know what happened or what was said).

I'm not disappointed in the least. Good on them for speaking out.
Get a ban? No big deal. It's only a group stage game, where we should win anyways. I don't recall Chelsea being too bothered without Drogba.

I don't know, I guess at this point everyone knows what I think of people that blame the referee for a result, but I am legitimately worried by this development. Arsenal are rapidly garnering a reputation for being the team that whines about the refs every chance we get -- our fans do it, our manager does it, and our players do it on Twitter quite a bit now. (A) I feel like it just makes us look like crybabies, and (B) I really do think we could start to see a backlash from referees who close ranks and protect their own. I do think refs respond to reputations on some level (see, e.g., how hard it was for us to get a penalty for months after Eduardo's dive).

oh c'mon Martin - geezus - Mourinho and Ferguson DO IT ALL THE TIME, where have you been? You really think Arsenal are unique in blaming referees???

A) I really couldn't care less what other fans think. We are all homers to our own teams to a degree anyways. I laughed when Chelsea got screwed v Barca a few years ago. I saw it again, and they got completely screwed that game. People will say what they want to say, because they have their own teams' agenda.
And they will look back at that decision in the future and ask the same thing we are asking 'What the f**k was that?!'

I am not huge on blaming the ref either for the most part. But a call like that is just unheard of at that stage of the game. Wenger said it.... to call that you must not understand that game. It's absurd.

Doesn't every team these days whine about the refs? I heard a lot of whining from Man Utd about the Nani incident on Sunday. Chelsea did their share after their loss to Barca a couple of years ago.
I'm not a big fan of it, but I think it's gotten pretty universal.

Maybe on the fans, and even the managers (Fergie whines as much if not more than Wenger does), but I'm pretty sure I haven't seen any other teams' players publicly take to Twitter to criticize officiating to the extent our guys have.

I think whining is a bit like diving. Nobody really likes it too much, especially when it's coming from another team. But it's the way it is these days. And unless there are suspensions arising from it, that sort of thing will continue.

How many other teams' players do you follow exactly? That may or may have a slight impact on your perception...

True. But I feel like there have been a number of mainstream media stories about our players various criticisms on Twitter, and I don't remember reading any similar stories about other teams' players other than Ryan Babel. I'm certainly open to being proven wrong on this.

But if I were Wenger or someone else in charge at the club, I'd just make a team rule -- "Look, we're not going to take away your Twitter, but from now on, no comments about refereeing." Because it seems like it's become virtually every game that at least one or two players complains about the refereeing after the match.

Fair enough.

Of course, if you were manager of the club, we would have to listen to 'frakking' all the time, and who wants that? ;)

His precious Spurs would probably like it.

They would, because Arsenal would almost certainly get relegated with "the Martin" at the helm, and putting up with "frakking" would be the least of your concerns. I'm sure I would lose the locker room within a matter of minutes.

"Crouchy, this is the frakking Martin speaking. You look like a frakking praying mantis. Pav, run around and frakking score, dammit! Keane, get the frak out, I thought I sold you. And Jenas, there's a car rental place that needs a spokesperson. That's all you're frakking good for, pretty boy."