Liveblog! Spuds-Arsenal

Not sure if there's anything left to say.  I will just add a point that I thought of when talking to a friend of mine.

This might be an oversimplification, but I think that as a tactician, you have to choose if your team is going to control the ball (A) or control the space on the pitch (B).  That decision dictates the brand of offense and defense your team will play with.  It is no secret that Wenger wants Arsenal to control the ball.

Defensively, if you choose this option, you have to prepare your team to win the ball back as quickly as possible to recover possession and play their game--that is, they have to be prepared to press the ball like mad and recover the ball in a matter of seconds, not minutes.  Recovering the ball quickly through pressing is absolutely crucial to keeping your attackers in a passing rhythm and keeping your opponents under pressure.  To make an analogy to a key principle of American football, you cannot have your defense on the field for too long, or else the big guys will wear out and you'll concede touchdowns--so, your offense cannot go three-and-out very often.

Interestingly, to have this kind of passing offense, you have to have some dominant defenders on the team.  Barcelona is obviously renowned for its attack, but that attack is only allowed to really express itself because of the presence of some world-class defenders in the side.  Puyol almost never joins into the passing rondos, but when Barca loses the ball in the middle of the pitch, there he is to steal it back and get the passing started again.  In contrast, those teams that seek to control the space on the pitch--like, say, Mourinho's Chelsea--consist mainly of defensive-minded players that are happy to absorb pressure all day long, but the system only works because in front of them is a dominant, world-class striker--like 11-foot tall Didier Drogba.

It seems to me that Arsenal's offensive and defensive systems, in this respect, are disconnected.  I think that Arsenal fields some excellent passers.  In fact, I think that if they are given enough time to pass, they can pick apart any defense in the world.  However, when they lose the ball, the team's pressing simply is not good enough to keep the team in a passing rhythm.  Today was particularly bad--there was almost no pressing in the midfield or forward areas, and when our traditional back-four won the ball back close to our own goal, the entire team had to spread back out and re-establish a passing rhythm.  This kind of back-and-forth is not conducive to effective attacking or defending.

You cannot have an attack that looks to beat teams by spreading and shredding them apart through passing AND a defense that sits back and absorbs pressure--you have to choose one or the other.  I don't know if it's Wenger's fault for not understanding this (granted, probably oversimplified) point, or if it's the players' faults for not executing the system properly.

There was one moment in the match--I wish I knew the minute-mark, but it was early in the second half--in which the team lost the ball, and the Spurs midfielder who recovered the ball passed it forward to Defoe--and bang!, there was Song, right on his heels--he got his foot on the ball and deflected it to Ramsey, and Arsenal had the ball.  This is how Arsenal needs to defend.

This is a fascinating idea you've put up. I'm going to have to think about it some more, but I think you certainly have a point, especially considering that our two greatest performances in the past year have been against Chelsea 3-1 and Barcelona 2-1, and in both those matches, we pressed like mad. I think part of the problem now though is that we no longer have the personnel to do that. Cesc and Nasri played possession better than anyone else we've got, and Jack is out for a while. And nor do we have domineering CBs who are near infallible like Puyol at the basics of defending. It feels like there are no solutions =(

Sorry people, I've used up all the hate, disappointment, embarrassment, and shock i saved for this season, and even the reserves that I had stored in my top drawer. At some point its better to look at the bright side and pray that God help us.

This is indeed our most trying time ever. We may not do well this season, though I hope we can seriously turn things around, but we should use this time to identify our problems and get the parts we need to do well. Arsene shouldn't be sacked, even though we haven't won anything in the last 7 years, but we have proven time and again for the last 15 or more years that we are a top class club not only in the BPL but also in Europe. This is our worst year yet, however,  I don't think one really bad year should negate all that has been accomplished over the last 15 years. I hate that Wenger is so damn stubborn, inflexible, and not open to change, but we'll weather the storm. C'mon folks, lets stand by our club. Liverpool didn't do well last season, they've made numerous changes and are doing better at the moment. We are still Arsenal, we will reclaim our winning ways, if not this season, in upcoming season. You can't keep a good man down. 

Defending is an issue, scoring is an issue, lets face it Arsenal has yet to put forth a full 90 of fluid high intensity football.   We held so much possession in spells just for us to mess up the pass forward, not receive the pass forward, or to dribble too much if we actually get the pass.  I am not a fan of our current 1-4-2-3-1.  Van Persie gets caught too many times having to do too much with the ball.  Theo and Gervinho get wide, but more often than not they offer an awful final ball/ cross or they lose the ball off the dribble.  There is no hold up play and a lack of running to the goal from our wide forward players.  Most of our runs come out of midfield from our inside triangle.  Right up the gut...SO PREDICTABLE...Arteta and Ramsey are so prone to having forward passes intercepted because they stare at it for five days before actually making the pass.  OMG and Benayoun...how many times are we going to see him cut in from left to right on his favored foot and either find a negative pass or intercepted pass.  Arsenal, Arsenal, Arsenal...where has the glory gone?

If wenger leaves I will stop supporting arsenal. O niel will likely be hired or even worse Benitez could become manager, which would absolutely kill the reputation arsenal had built for playing beautiful football.

If Wenger leaves I WILL SUPPORT ARSENAL coz it gives me confidence that the club has serious ambitions. Where art thou Martin O'neil? We need you to bring back the reputation Arsenal had built for being a COMPETITIVE TEAM.

Sagna out for months. Fucking hell. 

To be the scapegoat for the first goal conceded, and then to get carted off the field.  Bac doesn't deserve this--the man deserves to wear the armband as much as anyone on the squad.

Months? He's the only reliable defender we have... there goes our entire defence
What a terrible time for Arsenal; right now we really are the unluckiest club in the league..

The curse of Martin's jersey returns.  Should have known it would.

I did some research and I learned that Pat Rice has been with Arsenal's coaching staff waaaay longer than Wenger has been manager. If Arsene really can't turn things around, would Pat be a better option than highering a new manager with no experience at Arsenal? Sorry to start "sacking" conversations, I'm just curious about what other options Arsenal have to Wenger if they do decide that he is the problem. 

I would have to say no.  Too complicit--by his constant presence--in the downward direction of the club to be an option in my opinion.

wow...i tried to stay positive and now just saw that Sagna s fibula is broken and that he will be sidelined for 3 months....
This just awful, the plane is going down fellas, down to the ground....

I think we have to give the team a chance, we had difficult games as visitors lately.
That eing said, that chance cant be too long, and the owner should really start thinking about business (I read somewhere that games were not sold out).
If after the break we cant keep straight, then somethings got to change.

Still, too many points between us and the 1st places.

Are we getting to the point where we say: at least it wasnt 8 goals against?...

The 5th February 2011 will go down as a noteworthy day in Arsenal's history and in my life for all the wrong reasons. This is the day a seed of doubt was planted that has grown and finally come to fruition. The fruition is with regard to the managing of our football club. We drew 4-4 to Newcastle that day which was a result of the most shocking proportions. I hate to recount events again but to briefly summarise we were 0-4 up away from home at half time scoring the first 3 goals in the first 10 minutes. Then Diaby (please sell him AW) gets sent off and this is a catalyst for the most ridiculous comeback I have ever seen and statistically the best in Premier league history. This was a telling result in the following ways: 1. It proved Arsenal's defence, particularly at centre back, was not good enough 2. It proved Arsenal were menatlly fragile despite all AW assertions to the contrary. 3. it proved we were not Premier league title material despite our standing in the table and the fact we had been top of the league. The result of that game were much more significant than most people realise. Arsenal players got it into their mental psyche that they could not win. They lost the confidence and self-belief required to win. They lost the killer instinct that winners have. Following this result we lost to Birmingham in the Carling cup and have had relegation form since then. IF you don't agree you may be shocked to realise we have only won 3 of our last 16 games. Even more significant is that our side has become seriously weaker. Fabregas our best player by a mile left, Nasri followed at the end of a summer where we had bought a couple of kids but otherwise not invested in preparation for the imminent losses. What is even worse than the foregoing for me is that AW has been negligent with regard to the position of CB for years now. Nothing convinced me more than the Cahill debacle. Even the players brought in (arteta and co) seem to be more about appeasing fans hurting after an 8-2 thrashing at the hands of Manure than actually strengthening the team. I regret saying this but AW needs to go. He has outlived his usefulness at Arsenal Football club. There is no player bigger than the club and same with the manager. The behaviour of the board and owners is what concerns me the most. They have blind faith in a man who would have been fired at any club in Europe for the results Arsenal has produced of late. I get the impression that he does not feel any pressure at all. Todays loss to the scum at Spurs just added fuel to the fire.I genuinely say this with more pain than you can realise but Arsene Wenger needs to go, enough is enough.

There's always room for more people on the Homey train.  

Very clear argument, and I hate to say I'm on the verge of agreeing.. I've backed Wenger all through these calamitous few months, and I still think that he and the club have had the worst of luck, but another manager may have dealt with it better. Personally though, I think this form began not at Newcastle, but at Camp Nou, when that ridiculous red card on RvP got us sent home from the Champions League.

problem was the chances not scored. When a team gets hit by a goal, it takes around 15 min to recover, when we dont that gives them edge.

Need more goals,

I think we need a new manager. I can't think of how else to address that, which is simply a major lack of "cojones." This kind of mediocrity where players can't focus on defense and attack interchangeably for 90 minutes is something unique, beyond the scope of saving imo. Of all teams for us to lose to, WHY SPUDS? If you can't get yourself up for a match against spuds, what is there left to do? 

I hear you. I was on the Homey train and then jumped out, but I definitely agree: who can this be addressed to?
A while back I wrote something about the guy in the staff whose duty was to show AW the targets and tapes, and he was too young. Would it be possible that AW relies on him?
On the other hand, under Pat's yelling the team seemed to have a different attitude,

well...i expected a loss, what i dont expect is losses at home, or losses by 8 - 2.
that being said....get back Pat, to where you once belong (for 2 UCL games)
I see some attitude again lacking, and Gervinho is about to get in my black list.
But thats, imo, again, AW s fault.
A team like this CANT have only ONE person scoring, thk God for Ramsey and the ones that score ut I suspect that AW has them too "organized" and when it comes to a guy like Gervinho maybe not too much.
Ok, ok, I havent won and kept the team for 15 years in a row at the top...but now we are NOT at the top, and we may not be in UCL if we keep on doing this.

Granted: it was a tough visit, but I want to see our home games ¿calendar aside, which made us have some tough visits? but we have to re gain ctrl, asap.

Are you drunk or did you drop out of high school at 12? Learn to spell, friend.

English is one of maybe five languages that Gigi speaks.  How many do you write?

Danke, merci, gracias and grazie! ;)

It better not be his first language.

To keep reframe things: it only annoyed me because Arsenal's performance got me angry.

No, it is not my 1st language, I am self thaught, but I bet that you cant write half of what I can in the languages I speak and that I learned properly.

I never lived in an English speaking country, but I did in France, Italy and France.

So, for someone that hasnt lived in the US or UK, I feel ok with my English

and you are  not able to think that spelling wrong has anything to do with my anger related to the same game that got you angry?

no suprise,

spuds deserved the 3 points;

grrrrrrrrrrr

AW here for another 15 years?

i'm depressed

but good to see ramsay get a goal; he's had a tugh start to the season

Arsenal are not a very good team right now.  They lack fluidity and are prone to massive let downs with the defensive communication the chief problem.

That said, there were some very encouraging signs in this game, in which Arsenal were the better team for large portions of the game.  I think that Arsenal fans need to be patient and hope that Spurs and Liverpool stay close enough at the top for a late season run at 4th.

I have a sinking feeling we're going to end up like Leeds now...
dark times for the Arsenal

I hate to agree, I mentioned this like a year ago, and now it seems to be right in front of us...this is sad.

 I remember the 08/09 season when we lost 5 games, conceded 37 goals & Wenger declared it a disaster, citing our poor defence as the reason we didn’t win the league. Well here we are, three years later in the first weekend of October & we’ve lost 4 & conceded 16. Still, as that fabulous new crest tells us, “Forward

qq more

Let's hope AW has worked on the defence, it will be easy scoring it's just keeping them out thats needed