Take Your Pick – Mata or Nasri

Lets be honest here...AFC if our current best players leaves,then we can only hope to rebuild...having said that,we also may have to change our model in order to avoid the same conundrum in future...we have a lot of strikers,a lot of midfield and defence but not many are up to scratch...i mean AW has to be ruthless...we need real class acts in our first team...forward Vela,Bendtner,Chamakh,RVP,Walcott,Arshavin...play RVP and Arshavin as his support striker...play Walcott if RVP is injured...give him proper games to develop;if he still does not cut the mustard then he will have to go...then the others who cannot make it or is unhappy can leave or be sold off...midfield we actually have good prospects in Wilshere and Ramsey but they cannot be expected to be first team so they will be part of the back up rotation...get a brute defensive midfield ala L.Diarra/M.Diarra mould to challenge Song,even Marcos Senna as a stop gap would be good...and also a Cesc/Nasri/any decent established centre mid replacement that we may have to buy/who would welcome a step-up from their current club and wants to come play for us eg Inler,Hamsik,GCuff etc...wings go for Mata,Hazard,Turan and the likes...exciting young stars who would believe they can develop at Arsenal without demanding too much of a pay packet...then keep Rosicky or maybe eg offer Hleb and some of the better older players to come back but with a lower deal;these experience will help the young guys and keep that exp balance in the squad..players with promise but without any delivery to show so far have to be sold eg Denilson,Diaby to keep the squad fresh and even make room for our talented academy guys...keeper i would only keep Swocizeny based on what i've seen and his potential...go grab Given or some veteran keeper to provide competition...defence get a good cb to partner TV...all in all we have to start spending a little $ to get in certain talented individuals...also to keep the curent squad competitive...most important,the players brought in with prospect or to do a job,if they do not keep up with the standard required then it should be moved on after a year or two...eg much alike MUFC,Chelsea the very reason they are successful...AW should also look at bargains and act on it eg VDVaart i am sure we could use him...any older world class defenders should be brought in if the price is right eg Lucio,Carvalho...and since Arsene is French i reckon that he try to bring in the talented players from Ligue 1...the players i would really like to see is Benzema,Hazard,Mata,Gourcuff,Yann MVilla...then play them with our talented youngster and star players and we will be as good as new...HOPING

anyone know if there is a site we can view the asian tour on?

Honestly, from my perspective I think Arsenal should just get over themselves and sell Cesc, his hearts not in it anymore, he can fetch a much larger transfer fee and Nasri is more than capable in the middle of the park then he is on the wings. With Cesc gone Arsene can move Nasri to the middle where he put more into it compared to Cesc who always has one foot in Barcelona. That leaves a HUGE warchest if the rumors of the 50 million are true, and even if they short sell Cesc for 40 million that leaves a staggering 90 million available for transfers, 24 million for Mata gives a nice winger for the cycling of Walcott and Arshavin, hopefully getting the most out of Arshavin on a weekly basis or just using him as a impact sub. 

Also leaving money available for a star-studded defence, with that sort of cash you could have gotten Mertesacker, Luiz, Coentrao, and Howedes, I mean I know almost all these are taken or not available but if Arsene would have started working as fast as the other big clubs and tossed around his cash like the Real Madrid`s and the Manchester City`s we wouldn`t be sitting here eagerly awaiting the announcement that we got Scott Parker a newly relegated 30 year old, or Samba? Is this a world beating central defender that the best center-forwards of the age will fear going toe to toe with? I personally think not. 

I agree, waiting to hear if we've signed (sigh) Samba isn't at all inspiring. 

I have not yet read the post and the comments made, but please let this be over: sell nasry and buy mata.

Now I will do my reading.

Fans from Peru

your assumptions are too big:  cesc will be the one out (if either Nasri or Cesc leave).  As we saw with the Rooney saga, the talk was only made to boost Nasri's leverage in negotiations.  i think it's all hype.  does anyone see this mata business as a replacement for nasri on the wing, and moving nasri into the center? 

I highly disagree with Martin's comment below that he is less deserving than RvP or Cesc.  I think Nasri has always been an elite player even when playing for Marseille.  He had great contributions this season, and significantly less injury-prone than either RvP or Cesc.  

I tend to think that Arsenal's worldview about player wages and transfer sums can be too miserly at time where the other big clubs are only getting better players and the Intl field is getting more and more threatening (anyone taking notice of Madrid's pickups this summer?).

one last little rant: am i the only one that wants to see vermaelen moved to clichy's spot?  guy's got phenomenal pace and pretty good vision and passing.  we need brass in the mid and another defender.  let's be honest.     

Lots of stuff there, Djlazercat.  First of all, I think you'd be in a very tiny minority if you think Nasri is as good or as valuable as Cesc or RvP.  Still, most of us would want to keep him if we could.
Second, I wrote about the wages in the last blog.  Overall, we pay pretty well.  But for me, the problem is we give too much to low-producers, and don't have as much left for the top players.
Third, a lot of people have speculated about TV5 moving to the LB spot.  I have mixed feelings about it, but I could see the value.  I just don't know how well he can cross the ball on a consistent basis. 
Fourth, I actually feel more strongly that Cesc will stay.  The reason is simply because we don't really HAVE to do anything.  Unlike Nasri, Cesc doesn't have a contract expiring next year.  So we don't have to feel like we need to sell or else get nothing in a year. 

Guys, we just unveiled Ryo Miyachi. Also known as "The-guy-Wenger-will-use-to-cover-a-gaping-hole-in-the-right-wing-because-he didn't cost much". *Sobs*

Latest report seems to be that Wenger has caved and is offering Nasri 110k/week (about what Cesc and RvP make) to stay.

That's a lot of money for a player who really has only been an elite player for one six-week period, but given how harmful losing Nasri would be on and off the pitch, I think it's probably necessary. Hope it's true, and I hope it's enough to convince him to stay.

And now Goal dot com are reporting that we've agreed a 22m pound fee with City, where he'll be making more than 100k/week. Sounds plausible to me. 

Hmm... mixed feelings if that's true.  I guess I'd rather he go to City, since they often don't seem to know what to do with all their players.  And that fee is pretty good too.  Now it's just a matter of whether we'd really spend all that money, plus whatever else we were going to spend.

I kind of feel that we've been rewriting our enthusiasm for Nasri depending on his stance. He's an elite player that demonstrated (during a fairly short period, true) his credentials last season. It wasn't like he was coasting when he wasn't scoring goals, and it wasn't like his 2009/10 season was crap. He's an elite player that, I'm pretty sure, has the ability to contribute at a high level over the next five years. 

Is this a bad sign though with respect to the Cesc dealings? Would really love to have one more year of him, I think we're all (or, at least, most of us are) vastly underestimating how ireplaceable he is to this squad.

That is a lot of money, but if he continues to progress isn't he worth it? 

But I thought it was all about Nasri having a shot at the Ballon d'Or.

If he accepts, I'll be the first one to go to the stadium and shout obscenities at him. It would prove that, all along, it WAS all about the money. Back to the old argument, innit?

 c'mon boys take it easy on these mercenary players; we love this club, but we don't have million dollar sporting talents. If it was us we would only care about the money too! Why? Because thats the only thing left these days. The practice of fielding hometown boys who only care about the club is over. But guess what, clubs have NEVER had any loyalty. They're job is to win games to keep fans like us happy, so as soon as a player gets old or goes off form for a while he's either passed up for the next youngster in line or sold to a lower level club. So, c'mon, we love the club but lets be real, we can criticize all we want, but in the end, we'd drive a damn hard bargain as well if there was a possibility to get more money somewhere else.

So . . . if he stays, it will be for the money, and if he leaves, it will be for the money? I was going to make some crack about how that was hypocrisy, but then I realized that that was stupid, and that you were probably right.

But . . . so what? He's a professional football player, and the reality is that the vast, vast majority of them care more about money than they do about anything else. If Arsenal only sign players that care about Arsenal more than money, we're going to have a damn small squad (it'll pretty much be Jack Wilshere and the commenters on this blog). Maybe Nasri is an overpaid, selfish, crybaby, but he's an overpaid, selfish, crybaby who's a damn good player, and I'd much rather him play for us than someone else.

Well if Arsenal sign players that care about the club guess i would be there new left back and you would be there new striker, hope you not as horrible as bendtner

Haha, that thing about Wilshere and us guys left cracked me up. But, yeah, you're pretty much right. I think I still can't accept that most players today put money ahead of football in general. And it's quite a reflection of any other profession, isn't it? I mean, if anyone was offered a higher wage doing the thing he loves with a much higher probability than his old job, of becoming a hot-shot, wouldn't we all take the opportunity? This basically contradicts everything I used to say up to now, but I think football has become just another profession. It does make me feel sad a bit, though.

That sounds quite a bit like the argument I was making over the last week or so.  Maybe this blog hasn't dropped off a cliff as much as we all feared.  :-\
But I still wonder what we're going to to for Nasri so he can win the Ballon d'Or he's been dreaming about.

Do Sneijder and RVP still not get along? For some reason, I feel like the extra $10M or so he'd cost over the Nasri fee (if we could convince him to come here over Man United or staying put, which is probably a pipe dream) would be a bargain.  He just seems to have that passing vision and fighting aspect to his game that we'd really need if we lose Cesc.  But, much like Homey's disclaimer, I admit a pretty bare knowledge of the football world outside of England, so feel free to tell me all the reasons why I'm wrong.

i hope im proved wrong but if we gunners fan expect that ramsey or wilshere will pick out passes and create chances enough to challenge for the title, then we are way in over our heads.  NASRI MUST BE MOVED TO CENTER MID (assuming fabregas is gone) or fabregas must be replaced.

guys fabregas is one of the best midfielders in the world, we are taking a massive step back losing him, but since it is inevitable we cant realisticly think that our midfield will be able to cope without a replacement.  

Wilshere has the broader vision that Nasri lacks, I think. That's not to say that Nasri's passing isn't good, just that more often than not he looks for a short pass rather than a more difficult longer pass, the type that Cesc or Scholes or Pirlo or Xavi can see and make. And further, I don't think Wilshere has the consistency to step in to that role, but you can see the potential for it at times. 

I wonder what's up with Gervinho.  His Wiki page now says he plays for Lille.  And still nothing on the official site.

Lots of good comments today.  I'll just add a couple things.  First, of course in an ideal world, it would be great to keep Nasri and add Mata.  Plus Gervinho.  I guess I was just trying to make it a more realistic question - something Arsenal might actually do.  It's hard to see us adding Mata and keeping Nasri.  Plus I thought it would be interesting to see how everyone compares the two players against each other.  It's obvious at this point the group prefers Mata over Nasri.
Second, responding to J_V, I think if we were to lose Cesc, then adding at least one central midfield option would be a must.  Even if you loved Ramsey and Wilshere, who would we have behind them?  Diaby?  Rosicky?  Yikes.  Also, I still don't think it would be best to turn the midfield over to the two kids so early.  We'd at least need to add one more player - maybe Vidal, Honda, Taarabt, etc.

Not all kids are the same. These two have a greater understanding of how to play the game than guys with 10 years on them yet with more ability. Cesc is better at what he does than anyone in either Manchester sides or Chelsea but they didn't need him to win the league or come ahead of us. If it remains a three in the centre of the park I've no doubt the balance will fine but it's on the proviso that we have better attacking outlets.

i voted to sell Nasri because, from a time a player wants to leave, it does matter if he gets a new contract @ the start of every transfer window teams will always be bidding for him, like Cesc. it even happened to Henry, Viera etc

I hope he either signs for good or leaves now .. pulling off a "Flamini" would be the worst case scenario.

Is it just me or many players Arsenal (ie Wenger) is interested in buying choose to go somewhere else? Savic at ManCity, Ricky Alvarez at Inter. At the same time we are going to see Nasri and Fabregas leave. Hazard is probably going to stay in Lille. Wenger is apparently interested in Valbuena, a small and not very physically strong player playing in the PL? Ridiculous

I am not interested in Valbuena at all. Ugh. 

Maybe Wenger wasn't interested in them afterall. They aren't that good anyway.

As for Valbuena, I hope he stays at Marseille and Juan Mata comes.

I'd like to have both if we sell cesc bring in mata and put nasri in the middle

keep nasri please :)

saving 25000 per week or per year ? :/

Oops, my bad.  I just fixed it. 

I think this poll lacks another option: Keep Nasri and buy
Mata

In reality I would hate Arsenal to loose Cesc and Nasri as both are cracking
players. Nevertheless, let us start with Cesc, if he really wants to leave its
better letting him go (off course without letting Barca dictating transfer
fee). Fabregas is probably the best central midfielder worldwide currently, but
with his loyalties tied in other club he could be a liability to his teammates
and whole team morale could suffer.

Unfortunately, there is no one to step up in captain role in
current Arsenal team. Therefore, if Fabregas would leave, Arsenal would find a
hole to fill with another mediocre leader. I would hope for someone like Scott
Parker to join the club to take mantle of leader for another year or two until he
retires and Arsene finds suitable long-term leader. Parker, on other hand, will
not get a starting role immediately and I would want more competition in the
middle. From current crop of players without discussed Fab’s only Jack W. and
Song are worth to stay in team. Selling Fab’s and buying Parker would still
leave us short in quality (defensively) in center. I wonder if anyone remembers
Yann M'Vila – he could be perfect addition for us, type of player like Flamini
was, strong, aggressive tireless midfielder with rather good passing. Four of
them (Jack, Alex, Scott and Yann) would be fighting for 2 starting places in
center.

Now coming to Nasri, with Fab’s leaving we could make him our highest paid
player, maybe on par with Van Persie who needs to refresh his contract this
year to avoid Nasri situation next summer. And with Nasri staying I would still
expect Mata to come, he is more natural winger and together with Gervinho they
would fly on wings creating havoc in opposition defense. Mata would be better
option than Arshavin too, so let’s sell him if good offer arrives. Nasri could
play as ACM or fight for starting role on both wings if 442 formation would be
chosen. Anyway I would expect some injuries, and having four classy players (Walcot
included) capable playing on wing and most of them as attacking midfielders or
forwards would highly benefit team.

So I say, sell Fabregas and Arshavin, keep Nasri, buy Juan Mata,
Gervinho, Scott Parker and Yann M’Vila.

In case Nasri insist of leaving don't sell him to another EPL club, I'm sure there would be plenty of Italian sides who could use him, Juve indeed looking for LW. If he leaves then Arshavin can stay.

Now only defense needs sorting out.

I don't think any Italian sides would offer 20m+.

Milan have a pretty handsome transfer budget, but they already have Robinho, Ibrahimovic, and Cassano and he wouldn't fit in their formation at all.

Can we not have both? Its about time we broke the bank balance! Cesc is obviously wanting to leave, I say keep Nasri and pay him Cesc's wage as we all know money is always the beginning and end of transfers. Mata could take over Cesc's position and I think that would be a strong midfield. 
Nasri has damaged his reputation with the fans and will become the Ade No.2 if he doesn't speak up on what he is to do! If he wants to leave just tell us straight, we're all old enough and big enough to take it on the chin, sure some bad language will be used but it will suffice. Nasri owes his entire career to Arsenal and Wenger, least show some respect. Having said that I am a Nasri fan and want him to stay, I've lost interest in the Cesc and Barc fiasco. 

I think, as discussed in the previous blog post, that Nasri shouldn't be payed the same as Cesc. He hasn't earned it. That's the root of all our problems with the lesser players in the squad. They're paid too much money to go elsewhere. 

Aren't we offering him a contract of 90,000? So the extra 20k wouldn't make much of a difference if it keeps him at the club and taking over the role of play-maker. I agree with Wenger he can still improve. 

I know that none of us want to see him leave, but just because he could be taking over from our highest earner doesn't mean he should take over his salary as well. Nasri has to earn it, and right now he hasn't.

Alexinho

Nasri is 100% essential.What the same Nasri would has had a good 6 months out of 3 seasons.The same Nasri who went missing in action from january onwards.The same Nasri who said he wants to leave to win trophies.Sell him for £20m and spend the money on Parker and Samba

Cesc is not staying neither will Nasri.Only a club run by a madman would let Nasri run his contract out.Its like burning £20m.Because like it or not Nasri want to go to United and if Arsenal dont let him go now he will run his contract down and go for free

It's funny, because that's exactly what is happening. Wenger is going to keep him.

Hi Homey, couple of thing you overlooked.

Firstly when comparing pay, you've got to allow for local tax laws and do your calculations on a nett basis as this is what the player receives/cares about. E30k in spain is equal to a £45k salary in the UK due to our increased tax payments.

Secondly I feel it is worth pointing out that Mata is a product of the Real Madrid acadamy. Will he want to pull on the white again after a few years in england? we don't want all this again. 

Interesting additional point, Dom.  I dind't think about the tax issues.  Surely it's not that vast of a difference though, is it?  There was already so much calculating to sort through as it was.  =)

Keep Nasri, all day and all night.  I think that with the ugly transfer rumors going around, Arsenal fans have begun to self-consciously underrate Nasri.  If I were a betting man, I would have to say that if only one leaves this summer, it will be Fabregas; furthermore, I would not bet on both of them leaving.  Call me optimistic, but that seems to be too much of a disaster to sound very realistic.  Whatever happens, I consider Nasri to be absolutely, 100% essential.  I think that if there's one thing that gloomy Arsenal fans are exaggerating, it's the likelihood of his departure.

This has nothing to do with Mata--I think he is, by a massive margin, the best transfer prospect linked with Arsenal with Gervinho now all-but-signed.  Two things though: 1) If Gervinho is "here," doesn't that make it less likely that another starter-quality striker will come?  2) I don't think there is any substance to the rumors, from what I have read.  On these bases, I doubt that Mata is a serious transfer candidate.

Nasri has copped a major set-back with the fans - personally I would take someone who wants to play with Arsenal over someone who wants to play for Man U anyday!

I think we will need to consider the tax rate in diffferent jurisdictions to reach the actual income of the players...

Indeed true. I believe Monaco has a 0% tax rate for the "entertainment" industry which includes footballers. Problem is their stadium is falling apart and their team is shite.

I personally rate nasri highly as a central midfielder whose got more bows to his string than he gets credited with, however, we have loads of central midfield players. Right now, I'd be happy to see nasri & cesc go if it means we strengthened our goalscoring options. We will still outplayed sides with jack & Rambo in the middle but what we've lacked over the last few seasons is the natural finishing touches to our play. Instinctive finishers. If we could replace those two with mata down the left, bring in Gervinho & add benzema then how strong and better balanced do we look!

With the sale of cesc & nasri, on top of our reported current budget, there would still be money left over. I'd only spend that money if there was a genuinely class CB to be had(not samba or Cahill).

agree with JV, as well as Homey, except why not Samba or Cahill for CB?

They've both got qualities but their weaknesses will stand out in a side who, when they eventually lose possession, are overloaded with players upfield. The assumption is always that these guys are going to play like they do for there present sides but, samba especially, their teams methods of defending are totally different frim our own and they are not exposed to situations that they will face frequently with us. It's taken for granted,every time the ball is played up to the opposition forwards, the interceptions our guys makes. Balls over the top or in behind, how quickly they recover to win a race( I see samba getting left behind our even sent off regularly). Our guys do things quietly & effectively but get, too often little protection. The defending of set pieces is something else. It's a training thing & is something that can and SHOULD be sorted out on the training pitch.

i see. thanx JV. coz before this i just hope we get new CB to be paired with TV5, then names of samba or cahill quite heavily linked with arsenal. then if not those 2, who will be more capable to be our new CB?
anyway, i also hope this time we really get mata, new LB as clichy's replacement,plus new striker to ease RVP. though im just a far fan from malaysia, i still hope& love to see Arsenal
win trophy again.

when have we ever bossed the midfield with jack and rambo? i dont understand this point.  ramsey will be great, but has not proven anything yet.  and we cannot expect jack to pick up the slack of fabregas, who is one of the best midfielder in the world. if we lose cesc and nasri and do not replace them, as an arsenal supporter with all my heart, i will lose a great deal hope and optimism, more than any other season in recent time, and we havent exactly done well there

We will continue to boss games simply because all AW sides are trained to do so. You only need good technique, intelligence & patience along with a core understanding of the team concept. I'm assuming whilshere & Ramsey will play slightly ahead of song or whoever but I don't need proof of what they can do together. I understand what makes a good footballer player and who suits whatever styles of play. Ramsey has got everything. He just needs to find his rhythm. Having better players ahead of them will also remove some of the burden of forcing the play. I think we will flow better. Cesc has great touch vision of what's going to happen and most of all exceptional timing of execution but has been limited by what been in front of him. He's tried to force the play more & more & started to lose possession more often. On top of this he doesn't defend well which you can't afford to do if you want to be successful at the top level in the modern game.

How come nobody seems to care that we dont have cover for Alex Song?

I definitely care about the lack of a backup DM.  I've written about it several times.  That's why I like Vertonghen so much, because he can provide another option at both CD and DM.  But I'll leave a further discussion of that for another blog. 

Because we have both Coquelin and Frmpong, along with Djourou and Bartley capable of deputising.

I don't think either of those two are ready yet. Djourou and Bartley aren't energetic enough to play the DM position. As much as I like to see younger players promoted and do well, I think we need an experienced signing in this position (Parker, Keita, etc.). That's if AW rates the two youngsters and thinks they can take over in a year or two. Otherwise I'd buy a Vidal or M'Villa.

Frim what I've seen of frimpong, he's a natural & will settle into that role straight away.

I was very impressed with him last preseason, but we've yet to see him in any Prem games or high pressure situations. I would much rather he had the ability to step up than have to "splash the cash", but I'm unconvinced yet.

I guess I also failed to mention another thing on the plus side for Mata: Wilshere would feel tall standing next to him.

if only we could raise chamakh's self esteem that way

I just got to reading my poll question again, and I suppose the fourth option would be to keep Nasri until his contract expires, then watch him go for free next year.  But I don't think that option would get any votes, so there's no need to list it, I don't think.

 nasri has premiership experience and he's a central midfielder who can play on the wing you cannot compare. both can stay in the team but if nasri doesnt sign the contract then he should be sold.

Soooo... I take it your vote was for keeping Nasri?