van Persie, Gibbs, Cesc Withdraw from Internationals; Still More “Dowd-Gate” Fallout

looks like djourou is out for the season, now what the F is arsenal and wenger going to do, no proper CB and relying on shitty scillaci, wenger and the board must take blame for this, happens every year where they refuse to buy in the jan market and end up winning nothing due to injuries.

If what you are saying about Djourou is true I totally agree with you. Wenger is always proud to say that he's not spending like crazy for players but how can u expect winning titles when u have so little quality backup in defense. Squilacci in centre and Eboue in right back are just not good enough it's just ridiculous. When we had the opportunity to buy a player of the caliber of Mexes in January. I used to think Wenger is a great coach but now I realise how poor he is as a mamager.

theres no way fabregas and van persie are ill.. they're pulling sickies.. especially after the newcastle result they will want to focus on arsenal. Tbh, i dont have any problem with that.. they're professional footballers and they are at an important part in the season, theyve spent a lifetime training and preparing for these moments and then theyre expected to jeapodise their chances of success by playing in a meaningless match. If they respect their own careers they should do this (pull sickies) more often..

The most disappointing thing, from my perspective, is not that the calls went against us, which they probably did on balance, but the absolute inability of our players to mentally overcome the adversity of the perceived slight.

Its one thing for fans and commentators to complain about bad referee performances, I believe that we have every right. Arsenal's reaction was very poor, and that is something that they can control. They were mentally taken out of the game by hard tackling and poor refereeing. Newcastle laid down a template for unsettling Arsenal and its up to the team to decide if they are going to capitulate mentally when that happens the rest of the season.

Comlpetely disagree. When you're a man down and you know you're playing against 12 men, of which the ref is all important, and the other team gets away with basically all but punching your goalie in the face and tackling him to the ground, there is little blame that can be apportioned to you. The fact that two feet IN FRONT of the side ref and in full view of Phil F**kwad and OUR player got booked said everything that needs to be said about who the referee was there to stick up for. (I'm not even going to go into the horrible penalty calls and that last free kick, that would be an insult to people's intelligence, you have eyes and you can see how deserved they were).

Their team came out to fight and play referee sanctioned Rugby in the second half; sprinkled with with Oscar winning displays of thespian mastery by Barton (who knew that for once the referees were looking to reward him for not punching Diabi in the face, like he would have done 6 months ago). No doubt Barton has already been personally congratulated for his performance by fellow aspiring actor C. Ronaldo.

THAT was really what happened on Saturday. Dont listen to anyone making BU**SH*T excuses, and blaming the boys, who did the best they could with a stadium full of players trying to maim them. This was referee bias, about as clear cut it comes short of a signed and notarized affidavit. It was a disgusting and saddening display - felt like we were playing against Manure.

Not true at all. Our boys did not come out to play in the 2nd half, and every time something went against them they retreated further. The refs were terrible, but they also disallowed a Newcastle goal that was clearly a goal. We don't get to blame the refs for all the problems with our team. Our team had enough problems to go around on Saturday, and they ranged from the players, to the manager, to the ref. Each played an almost equal part in this loss.

Fair points. I agree that the refereeing was very bad, especially with respect to Barton, who was clearly playing the antagonist with Arsenal. The referee needs to do a better job of protecting teams/players from that sort of reckless behavior. Diaby's reaction, however justifiable, was not a professional reaction, neither was the Arsenal play after the sending off.

You have to separate the analysis from the factors that you can't control and the factors that you can. The basic premise is this:

As before, teams are going to use dirty tactics to unsettle Arsenal's passing game and mental strength. Arsenal cannot expect that the calls are going to be spot on all the time. What I saw on the field was mental capitulation from things not going their way. Not the stuff of champions.

That said, to say that the collapse was 100% on the team is wrong. I'm not trying to guess at percentages here, just point out that we need to do a better job of controlling our attitude and effort levels.

You're absolutely bang on. The other worrying thing is that now Wolves could employ the same tactics. Also it's good to see that you don't dismiss the huge role the bad calls played against us.We could however question the leadership on the pitch and not blame the usual suspects Squillaci, Diaby, Rosciky and Kos, as escape goats.
In my opinion Wenger should take the blame for this horrendous loss.

Well, what I don't get about this is that we got over the non-offside call at Everton. Yet, at Newcastle, we couldn't get it together after the break. And it's extremely frustrating too, because thanks to this tie, we've actually gotten less points against Newcastle than vs Chelsea and vs City. It's also confirmed that we are unable to hold onto leads, ever.

Inseatd of replying to evreyone some random thoughts here.
- Re The result. I said it the first time (when JG came and gently calmed me donw haha). But its too non-excusable to go 4-0 leading and conceed 4 to be tied with the other team. It simply cant happen to a title contender.
- Re Dowd. The guy is simply stupid. Maybe he had an agenda (it would be at least evil clever) or maybe he is just stupid. But the guy definitely has something wrong (evil or dumbness, and sometimes I dont know which is worse).

- results based on his calls. Yep, it affected us, psychologically. Yes, its human. But hey, the gunners know about this stuff for a long time now, and should better expect this to happen and they will have to fight harder.

I'll admit I haven't read all the comments from the previous post. And couldn't even bring myself to read all of what Martin wrote, which is a rarity. Just felt too sick about it.
I know I'm restating a few things that have already been said, but:
1) Every team is going to have moments of regret in a season, of leads that slip away or losing to teams we shouldn't have lost to. We have plenty of both already, and the season isn't over yet. But Man Utd has a few thing to kick themselves about, not the least of which is losing to Wolves.
2) We're going to have to get used to the fact that this year's EPL winner won't be a legendary, all-conquering giant. Ferguson said before his team lost to Wolves that it would take 84 points to win the league. Assuming his team or Arsenal can still get there (which I doubt), that would be the fewest points for the winning team since the 2002/03 season. So even if we look ridiculous at times, the point is simply to have one more point at the end than Man Utd. And we're in a better place to do that than we were before the weekend.
3) While it's sickening to think we have it in us to lose a 4 goal lead, we also have it in us to look like the best team on earth in getting a 4 goal lead. At least we know we have that level of play in us, so now it's a matter of getting it back again. And a lot of that has to do with getting healthy at key spots.
4) When we let the transfer window pass without doing anything, I thought surely there's news behind the scenes that Vermaelen is expected to be back soon. Or else we would have surely needed another CB. So I'm gonna keep telling myself that for now.

Homey -- I too am lying to myself about Verm.

Ha. Yeah, I saw that, and I am not surprised in the least. The only surprising thing was that there was no mention of Szczesny scoring off the charts, too.

Try it again, just a little fun for you Martin. You've got to laugh :}

http: // soccernet. espn. go . com/news/story/_/id/876069/nicklas-bendtner%27s-self-confidence-mark-off-the-scale?cc=5901

Also, Martin, you should look at the Dowd's record in his games for us all season long. Other bloggers have done it. We've drawn or lost and in each one there were very poor calls on his part.

He refereed the Sunderland match -- we got thoroughly outplayed, got a lead through a fluke goal (although one earned by hustle) by Cesc. Dowd gave us a penalty, which Rosicky sailed over the bar, then Clichy decided it would be a better idea to dick around with the ball in the box instead of clearing it on the last play of the match instead of clearing it, allowing Sunderland to equalize. Unequivocally Arsenal's fault that we dropped 2 points.

He then refereed the Tottenham match, which we blew a 2-0 lead and lost 3-2. We were absolutely atrocious in the second-half, and the only controversial call was the penalty awarded against Cesc, when he inexplicably had his hand up over and away from his head on a set piece and the ball hit him on the hand. I know there was some grumbling about that, but I think it was absolutely a penalty, and would have been furious had some other team gotten away with that against Arsenal. Again, unequivocally Arsenal's fault that we blew a 2-0 half-time lead at home.

And then Saturday.

Look, I wish I did agree with you, and wish we had a scapegoat, it would make things a lot easier. But there just isn't. In all three of those matches we made bad and stupid plays, twice capitulating in the second-half after having a commanding lead. It wasn't his fault Rosicky missed the penalty (which, obviously, Dowd awarded in the first place), it wasn't his fault Clichy didn't clear the ball, it's not his fault we let Bale and company run rampant over us, it wasn't his fault that Cesc decided to stick his arm over his head when defending a set piece. And despite some questionable calls, yesterday wasn't his fault, either.

I also question your fundamental assumption. I just can't believe Dowd is walking out of that tunnel thinking "oh man, I can't wait to stick it to those dirty foreigners at Arsenal today. All my friends in the North are really going to get a kick out of this." It seems to be a giant leap, based on the fact that we have crapped the bed three times out of three this season in matches in which he was refereeing, that he has no integrity and is out to get us. Incompetent, maybe, but it's a big leap from that to crooked.

Some other team DID get away with that against Arsenal later on in the season... Can't remember which though.

Martin, you're being disingenuous if you think refs have no biases. I'm not saying you're wrong about Dowd being crap or that he was the sole reason we lost a 4 goal lead. But you're quite wrong if you think refs don't "send messages" - like they did almost the entire season last year when we were denied many blatant penalties due to the Eduardo fallout. Some of them were staggeringly blatant. It's a fact that most refs are from the north-it's a fact that Arsenal are widely viewed as foreign whingers, divers, wimps, unable to take the hard English game. This most definitely informs some refs' views of Arsenal.

interesting use of the phrases 'fact' and 'most definitely'...

its easy to say they are biased against us after one game but overall i dont think arsenal have any particular disadvantage, it just might seem so because if you follow arsenal you're more aware of it, but i'm sure every team thinks the refs are against them

Phil Dowd is an awful referee (or just probably biased) and it needs to be said all over the press. "Referees will stick together with each other" well it sure will improve the quality of the PL if they stick together when are mediocre and at the end of the day ManU is always champion. Do they have a commission for referees where they are being judged or it will have no impact at all and things will go on like this. I mean last week it was Everton off-side goal, then the 2 penaltys and (non) sending off. What will we have this week-end for the Wolves game? Well we maybe be better get used to dodgy decisions when it comes to Arsenal games ...

I have not seen the game (and I'm happy about it), but I have been regularly watching EPL and I think Phil Dowd is the best referee there. This does not mean that he did not have a shocker on Wednesday---most referees do from time to time, although not everybody gets a World Cup final to have his---but I do believe that he was neither biased against Arsenal nor caught in the flow of the game.

And guys, sorry for saying the obvious, but there should really be no way back for any team from 0-4 down, Phil Dowd or not.

So let me get this correct...As soon as one take a 4 goal lead the game should be terminated! Why are we being so closed minded and not take into account that players are not robots, psychology, fatigue, complacency, weather conditions and a biased Ref. all these factors could definitely assist the other team to challenge and make a game of it. If it was that easy Brazil would win every possible international competition!
We have to give the Magpies some credit for not quitting, and hope for a better strategy from Wenger when we have sucha large margin.

For an example of what I'm talking about, check out this blog post:

http://yankeegunnerblog.wordpr...

I'm not picking on him, and us American Gooners generally stick together, but, not to go all Seth and Amy here, but "Really? That's what you're going to headline your post on this match? Really? NO blame for the Arsenal Players? The same players who blew a 4-0 lead? Really? No blame for Koscielny, who conceded a stupid penalty? No blame for Clichy, who allowed a relatively tame aerial ball to fall right onto Best's feet on the edge of the six-yard box? Really?!"

It's this idea that it's never OUR fault. It's always someone else's fault. If it were just down to our players, we would go 38-0-0 every season. This in spite of a mountain of evidence to the contrary -- which is to say, that our players made a ton of screw-ups and bottled the match.

Put your tin hat on -- I got blasted yesterday for saying basically the same thing.

But to my way of thinking, the officials yesterday made 2 100%, no doubt about it errors which affected goals. And one (the clearly onside Best goal which was counted out) went our way, one (the Rosicky penalty) went against us. So for me, those cancel out somewhat. And there were a number of other borderline calls that may have gone against us.

But honestly, what I hate about this almost more than the result itself is it brings out the worst in Arsenal and Arsenal fans. I suppose it may not be something peculiar to Arsenal, but for me, this situation is just crying out for someone to man up and say "we blew it, we lost our nerve, it is unacceptable and it will not happen again." Instead, we get "The Refs are against us! The refs were using swear words! Joey Barton is a bad man and he kicked me! Kevin Nolan is a bad man and he pushed me! The whole world hates us!" It's just whining and crying like a 7 year-old who had a toy taken away.

I just literally do not understand why, when faced with a crushingly disappointing event like this, Arsenal fans (and maybe people in general) have the first reaction of denial and blame instead of acceptance and trying to figure out what can be done BY OUR TEAM to prevent it from happening again.

But then why on earth do we arsenal fans support wenger's theory of not buying a CB when its so obvious that a CB is needed? Isn't that something that needs to be done to fix the problem? Time and again on the blogs and comments from arsenal fans talk about the great theory of doing good business and not buying players and that our entire team costs less than Caroll's or Toress' price blah blah blah...but will this win us titles? Please tell me it will. Someone, anyone...give me once sound logic of how we can win PL?

A round-up of our current situation:
1) There is no clear news on when Verminator will be back (if its March...it might be late)
2) One of our CBs is Squealaci who i feel is worse than Mikael Silvestre
3) Djouru (the finest CB of this season in the whole of PL according to me) is out for indefinite period
4) Diaby is out for 3 games (Wolves, Leyton and Stoke) unless appeal is made and accepted for his red card
5) Songhino may not play against Wolves
6) Nasri is out till atleast 24th Feb (3 weeks as per arsenal official injury update of 3rd Feb)
7) 13 members - 12 from 1st team - are going to play in not-so-friendlies this week.

Now can someone please give me a logical plan out of this and help me see the method in the madness that is wenger's decision of not buying atleast a CB?

Wenger should have bought a CB. I don't know anyone that disputes that. But people saying he should pay 15 million for Cahill, or 8-10 million for Samba or Upson . . . well, it's just crazy. Those players are not very good, and not worth anywhere close to those prices. I do think he looked, I just think he didn't find anyone of Arsenal quality who was worth the price being quoted.

I agree with most of your points about CBs, but your other points are things that are beyond Wenger's control completely. We're not going to make it through an entire Premiership campaign without any injuries, and we're just going to have to deal with them. Song may very well be back against Wolves. Nasri is out a couple of weeks, but he was out for over a month earlier in the season and we coped okay. Diaby is suspended, but honestly . . . Diaby is not that good, and if we have cover, I don't think he'll be missed.

I'm just not sure what you mean by "a logical plan out of this" -- we have a few injuries and a suspension. Not the first time it's happened, won't be the last, and not the end of the world. Again, I agree with you about a defender (at the very least, Bartley or someone should have been kept around instead of being sent out on loan).

your wrong, chelsea bought luiz for 21m, and one of the best CB in the world. if you want quality then you have to pay, whats the point in making profits of 100million when all it goes is into the pockets of the rich directors, fans are not getting anything in return, the ticket prices are the highest on europe. stingy wenger i tell u

I agree with the main thrust of your post but another ref (who was interested in protecting players)would have had Barton off (with 2 yellows) for poor challenges on Arshavin & Diaby in the first half.
Nolan should have got a yellow for his part in the Diaby sending off, which together with his yellow for wrestling Scezney, would have seen him off.

So N'castle could have ben down to 9 players with different officials.

The linesman who awarded the 2nd penalty (& disallowed a N'castle goal as off-side)also awarded the free kick against Rosicky which resulted in the 4th Newcastle goal. Both were very poor decisions which directly effected the outcome of the game.

The reason why Wilshere has not been punnished by the FA for his twittering is because the FA know he's right..some of the officiating was not consistant.

Bottom line id that without Diaby's act of baffoonery none of this would have arrisen.

Credit to Newcastle & their fans for seizing the opportunities presented & turning the game on it's head.

I'm fully with you on this one.

Personally what pisses me off even more than whining are the comments like "there are only one invincibles" and "we're off the hook because Man Utd and Chelsea lost". You are 5 points off the top of the league, 12 games to go, and are happy with a point off Newcastle and taking United down a peg? Wanna bet this was the last time this season when both Man Utd and Chelsea lost?

For me this is the clearest possible sign that most of Arsenal fans---to your credit, less here than on other blogs---are in their heart of hearts content with a perpetual 3-4 league finish. Pathetic.

To be fair, the Invincibles record is something near and dear to the hearts of many Arsenal fans, just because it's one thing we can claim that no one else can. We can't quite match Liverpool or Manchester United for history, we've never won the Champions League/European Cup, but that is one thing that is ours and ours alone. Even though I suspect that, deep in our hearts, many Arsenal fans would acknowledge that that team was not actually the best team of the Premier League era (before you jump down my throat about that, remember that lost to Chelsea in the Champions League quarterfinal, lost to Manchester United in the FA Cup final, lost to Middlesbrough in the League Cup semifinal, and drew in the league to Portsmouth (twice), Charlton Athletic, Fulham, Leicester City, Bolton, Newcastle, and Birmingham).

And I think a lot of the reaction you talk about was more relief. I know it was mine. Because that Newcastle second-half was among my worst memories as an Arsenal fan, if not the worst. I don't ever remember feeling so demoralized, and it felt like Manchester United were going to beat Wolves and go 7 points clear, and the title chase was over. To find out that we actually gained ground somehow, and were still very much within striking distance, was a bit of a pick-me-up.

And, just for the record, we are 4 points back, not 5. Like I said, in a way it almost makes it more frustrating, because I can't help but think about how we'd only be 2 points off the top if we hadn't blown it. But Manchester United could have all but knocked us out on Saturday, but they didn't, and we're still very much in it, which is cause for some happiness for those of us who really want to win the league, I would say.

Well, we can also claim the greatest choke in EPL history now too, how unique. I don't know which club has blown the largest point lead and lost the English title in the history of the league... but that sounds exactly like something we would do. Whatever man, I love the heartbreaking, breathtaking, greatest fucking team to watch in the world, Arsenal... no teams leaves as many jaws hanging as us.

Well, in 1998 we made up a huge deficit on Manchester United (I think it was 13 or 14 points) over the final couple of months of the season. But that doesn't tell the whole story, because we had 3 matches in hand, and then beat them head to head, which put us pretty much even.

Wednesday-->Saturday

I agree that it would be pathetic to blame Dowd for our total breakdown on Saturday. It's happened before against Wigan, Sp*rs and it'll happen again no doubt. Man U & Chelsea thankfully let us off the hook. But Wenger has some serious questions to ask himself (Rosicky substitution, doing nothing in the transfer window and still relying on Squillaci as CB cover - and who to me is rapidly becoming a liability à la Silvestre). But if Dowd was not such a crap ref. we probably would have come away with the three points, albeit holding our breath for the last half hour. He made two clearly incorrect and serious decisions (Nolan on Wojo, which was right in front of his assistant what's more and would have affected the course of the game, and the second penalty call).
Furthermore, if what Sagna has come out and said is true, then Dowd should face the music for his behaviour. You wouldn't accept having a teacher standing up in front of a class of kids effing and blinding, and still insisting on commanding discipline and respect, so why should it be different with a referee ? They are there to keep a grip on the game and ensure fair-play and adhesion to the rules. Seems Dowd failed in all those respects at St James' Park on Saturday.
Yes we were crap in the second half, Abou Diaby was a tit for reacting as he did, Newcastle put in an amazingly spirited performance, but Dowd was a disaster and didn't make for an even-sided contest.
Just think refs should be more accountable for what they do, that's all. End of rant....

As to why it should be different, I would just say because we also wouldn't accept children screaming profanity and abusing teachers. But as long as we tolerate and accept this behavior by players towards referees, I do think that changes the rules of engagement a little bit and I do have sympathy for referees for using a bit of foul language in communicating with players.

Martin, if players lose their temper then they should be punished, rather than tolerated (frankly, it seems that some are tolerated and some are not). The refs should always be above all of that, thats what they're getting paid for damn it. The players are being paid to play for their team (including getting calls for their team). The refs on the other hand are paid to be neutral; letting them behave like the players would be as good as making a case for the police to be allowed to break the law while trying to catch criminals. It just isn't how things are done. Refs are supposed to be respected, looked up to; how is that going to be possible if its common practice for them to act just as badly as a player or a fan.

No... no excuse for Dowd's all-around disgraceful display

I'm not talking about what should happen, I'm talking about what does happen. And right now, players get away with abusing the refs more or less with impunity. No one is claiming that refs should be able to abuse the players. But all Sagna said was that Dowd used bad language, he won't even say what was said (again, irony -- the same people absolutely blasting Dowd for this are the exact same people calling David Moyes a coward for accusing Cesc of saying something inappropriate without being more specific). For all we know it could have been something like "shut the frak up" or "I won't take any more of that shit for you." Hardly the end of the world.

there is no excuse for a ref talking like that to Sagna-esp since Sagna does not disrespect refs the way Terry, Cole and Rooney do

LMAO, remember when we played against Manure and Vidic, after not getting a call, got up from the ground and ran up to the ref, shoving him as he ran? I don't even remember him getting a reprimand for that. I wonder what would happen to an Arsenal player if he ever did somthing like that; probably wouldn't be allowed near a round object even remotely resembling a football for the rest of his life.

It wasn't Vidic, he's not British, he'd never get away with it either. It was that crybaby Darren Fletcher.

Well I can only say one thing difference this week is that we cut for 1 ManU lead and increased for 1 lead against Chelsea. You cannot say for sure whether if we have won we would be only two because u'll never know the reaction of opposition when they have some one breathing closer in their neck. Yes they f..ked it up a bit, but it is not that bad after all, I would have take draw anytime if Chelsea and ManU would loose the games especially known that Invincible shall be intact ;)