Exploiting the Spanish Youth System Rules

By: Homey | October 4th, 2011
   

Barca Youth Team
My interest in the topic of this blog began as I was scrolling through the usual baseless rumors about various transfer targets. I found a rumor about a young player in the Barca youth system named Gerard Deulofeu. Naturally, since I’m a donkey at all of this, I’d never heard of him, despite the fact that he’s the “next Messi” and all that. Anyway, the part of the report that intrigued me the most was he “is on a youth contract with a £3 million buy-out clause.”
Gerard - Barca
To a casual reader, that doesn’t really mean anything. However, I started trying to compare that to what I thought I knew about the Spanish youth system. And what I thought I knew was that there are no youth contracts in Spain, and so there are no buy-out clauses in the first place. So I decided to investigate this matter a bit, and see what I could learn about youth systems and the rules that govern them.

I’ll start with FIFA’s position on youth contracts and transfers. FIFA allows players under the age of 18 to sign contracts, but those contracts may not be for longer than 3 years. I wasn’t able to find the rules for every country, but I know that Italy and Spain have rules that do not allow players under 18 to sign professional contracts. England, on the other hand, does allow it.

Last year, the European Court of Justice ruled in a case involving a 1997 transfer of a player named Olivier Bernard. That decision ensures that all clubs will be compensated for the money spent on training players between the ages of 16 and 22, if those players sign professional contracts elsewhere. The exact amounts are complicated, and you can read more about them here. But basically, the point of it is that clubs signing players do have to compensate the former teams, but that can often be a nominal amount, especially when the player is a unique talent.
Jon_Toral
That leads us to a discussion of Jon Toral. In February of this year, Barcelona president Sandro Rosell called Arsenal “immoral” over the signing of Toral for a mere £350,000. Following in the footsteps of Fabregas, Pique, Merida, and many others, Toral moved to England and signed a professional contract. From a Barca point of view, this is certainly frustrating. They spend a lot of time and money training the best players on earth, but because of the more restrictive Spanish rules, they sometimes lose top players to big English teams. (If you think I’m having a pity party for Barca, I’m not – more on that later.)

After reading the report on Deulofeu, my immediate question was why Rosell couldn’t have just signed Toral to a youth contract, and at least instituted the same buy-out clause that Deulofeu has (£3 million). And if there can be youth contracts with buy-out clauses, why stop at merely £3 million? Why not fully protect yourselves from “immoral” outsiders?

At that point in my thinking, I decided to turn this question over to some outside help, as I often do. I asked some questions to Ade, who writes for the Barca Offside site. Ade called in some help from the @YoungCules Twitter site as well. I also called in some help from a few others – Elisa from Forza Futbol, and Linda Hui, who wrote an interesting blog on this topic a while back as well. Everyone was very gracious in helping out. (As an aside, that’s one thing I’ve enjoyed in my time as a blogger – everyone I’ve asked for help on various topics has been more than willing to help out.)

Anyway, my first order of business was to sort out whether or not an under-18 Spanish player can sign a contract. The answer from Ade and Elisa is that they can sign a pre-contract, but apparently only with limited wages and a limited buy-out clause. Ade also said that some players choose not to sign a pre-contract, because they want to make it easier to sign a full, professional contract somewhere else. Apparently, this is what Toral was thinking. My next question, which Elisa answered, was how Spanish teams are ever able to hang on to their best youth players. And of course they do hang on to plenty of them, as we’ve seen with so many of the current Barca regulars. Anyway, Elisa’s answer was in line with what we might have guessed. Basically, young kids want to be close to home, in a familiar environment, and with the hopes of making into the senior club at some point. So if it’s just a matter of just waiting another year or two, and then getting financially rewarded, it’s worth the wait for many young players. And finally, my last question to Elisa was whether there’s any talk in Spain about changing the rules to conform with those in England, but her answer was that Spain is hoping to pressure the rest of the EU and UEFA to conform to what they’re doing in Spain.

Turning back to the rules in England, there’s currently a rule for players under 16 that they must live within a 90 minute drive to the club. Obviously, this rule works against English clubs, whereas the Spanish rule works in their favor. In Spain, clubs can bring in youth players from outside the country. Messi arrived from Argentina when he was 13. So for a big English club, there’s a bit of a limitation as to what they can do with players under the age of 16, but then the doors are swung wide open after that. (Some are blaming the English youth rules for the poor performance by the national team at the last World Cup, but that’s not my concern as an Arsenal blogger living in the U.S.)

So what does all this mean for Arsenal, and what should our club be doing? Well, first of all, I wouldn’t lose one wink of sleep over being “immoral.” I tried to count all the built-in advantages that Real Madrid and Barcelona have over Arsenal, and here are the big ones that came to my mind:
1) more favorable tax rates
2) better weather
3) a much more favorable La Liga tv rights deal that gives the lion’s share of money to two top teams
4) fewer legitimate domestic rivals (Six of Forbes’ most valuable clubs reside in England alone, whereas only two are from Spain.)
5) assorted local government assistance.

So with all of that in mind, am I shedding a tear over Arsenal’s “immoral” poaching of Toral? Not one bit. I say, while we’re at it, let’s be more immoral. The fact is, every club has certain advantages and disadvantages to offer. One player might be attracted to more playing time at a lesser club, while another player might be attracted to playing a minor role on a big club that wins all the time. But either way, the club has to accentuate its positives, and use them to its best advantage. If there’s one regulatory advantage that Arsenal has over Barca at the moment, it’s the youth contract system.

Now, the tricky part is how exactly to go about poaching players. I would think it’s pretty difficult to figure out how good a 16-year-old in Spain is, without having a scout at every practice and match. And even if you could figure out how good a young player is, it’s even more difficult to figure out how good of a player he’ll become after a few years.
La Masia
But at the same time, I think it’s pretty clear that Barcelona’s La Cantera youth academy is considered the top system in the world at the moment. You can read this article, which gushes its praise. Anyway, without having to send scouts all over Spain and Italy, I think we could at least set up shop in Barcelona and a couple other places, in hopes of finding a few more Torals and (hopefully) Fabregases. And yes, Fabregas is a sore subject for us right now, after his departure back to Barca. But still, his capture many years ago was one of the big windfalls in Arsenal history, in terms of what we paid to get him, what he did for the club, and what we sold him for in the end. So I don’t look at getting another Cesc as being a bad thing at all.

Well I hope you now know everything you wanted to know about youth systems, plus a little more. I think I’ll take a little break from blogging for a few days, since these last two blogs took so much time. But JG will stop by soon with more blogging goodness for you. And if you really want a fix, please see our new Twitter account as well, which is @OffsideArsenal.

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Rebuke is more effective for a wise man than a hundred blows on a fool. Proverbs 17:10.


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  • will

    Great article Homey, and the sources really do help get the point across (I follow the links, for one.) High hopes for Toral and Bellerin; hopefully we won't hear any of that Barca DNA crap come 7-8 years from now! Agree with Hayseapl 100%..
    And I'm only nit-picking, but Atletico Madrid is ranked 19th on that Forbes list, so there are actually 3 clubs from Spain ranked most valuable (hardly makes a difference at 19th place though.)

  • Kas123

    I guess that CL money will come from us selling our best assets to the deep pockets of the football world to compensate for the money we're gonna be losing.

  • Kas123

    Nice Article Homey. I guess we've conceded 4th place already, Old Ivan Gazidis is already saying that we can cope without the CL already. Pretty damn sad.

  • Homey_Mills

    I got to thinking about the comments about not needing the CL money.  So if we're able to do just fine without it, that must mean we're overflowing with money while in the CL, right?  You know, enough money to buy players like Hazard or M'Vila, or re-sign players like RvP and Nasri.  But what do I know...

  • Kas123

    Or it may mean that we have plans set up to offset the loss of that 26-33mil that we usually get from the CL. Maybe these plans include cashing in on big name players, brining more reserve and youth players into the first team, maintaining the salary "caplike" structure that we currently have..... I really dont know. But like you said, if we're sitting on that much money, I guess it woulda been nice to see it used to improve the squad in some type of way. I looked at the 125 Anniversary Crest which says "Forward", I'm afraid its being done quite a disservice.

  • Homey_Mills

    These sure are sarcastic, negative times we live in as Arsenal fans.

  • Homey_Mills

    Yeah, I saw that.  I don't think we've given up on 4th though.  Hopefully it's just saying IF we don't get there, then we'll still be ok. 

  • Gigi_man

    http://www.arsenal.com/news/ne...

    worth a post? I myself loooooove RvP, but I got the feeling that Wojo, even though with less time here, has more Capt material to him. I mean, RvP is imo our best player, but so was Titi and the capt was Pat, so was Dennis and the capt was Adams...people with that "thing" in their eyes, capables of getting to a team, lift them up, no?

  • Arsenal Fan

    Great article Homey Mills. Barca calling anyone immoral is quite a joke, no? Maybe they should stop being immoral with the TV rights in Spain, yes? Stealing Cesc. Improper influence with referees and UEFA, intentional or coincidental? They are willing to do ANYTHING to get an advantage, but no other club should?

  • I have to say the whole thing strikes me as pretty unsavory. As they say it's really better not to know how the sausage is made, and in this case just pretend they all magically show up at a reasonable age ready to play at a world class level.

  • I agree. It would be better if no one did this, but if you're allowed to do it, and other clubs are doing it, then I definitely want Arsenal doing it, too.

  • Danish Gooner

    Hector bellerin is the real star they say.

  • Alexinho

    Can't wait to see what becomes of those two.  No sign of them on the Arsenal TV youth/reserve videos...maybe too young.

    I love the youth sides of big teams.  Barca Atletic and Arsenal youth matches are a real treat if you ever get the chance to watch them.  Great talent on display, and the results don't matter.

  • Walterb

    What is exactly the influence of the chief of the PGMOL on the refs? Is he just the paper man who is not in touch with the refs? Or is he as a former colleague still very much in touch with this refs? This is a very important question. And I don’t really know the answer.
    But one can assume that the chief of the refs as being a former ref himself will have some good connections with his refs. So I think it is safe to assume that Mike Riley will speak with his refs.
    And Mr. Riley doesn’t just speak with this refs. No it has been made public that Liverpool manager has spoken with Mr. Riley after getting a few decisions going against him and his club Liverpool. As far as I know this happened after two games in which Liverpool felt hard done by the refs. Had they any reasons to complain?
    If I look back at the ref reports it looks as if they had reasons to complain. Against Stoke they got a penalty against them for what was not a foul. And on the other hand they didn’t get a few penalties for the most obvious holding, pulling and grabbing from Stoke defenders on Liverpool strikers. So yes they could feel hard done by.
    In the next game Liverpool played Tottenham and again no penalty was given for a clear pull on Caroll when the game was still in a balance. And they could also complain about getting many yellow cards which resulted in the sending off of Adam. Certainly the first yellow was a very soft one to give from the ref. You can find both reviews on this site.
    So yes on both games Liverpool could feel hard done by the ref decisions. So Dalglish went up to see Mike Riley and have a word with him.  It must have been a very nice chat. I think stories of the good old times will have been told. Maybe a good bottle of wine or a pint will have been drunk. It must have been one of the best talks that Dalglish has had for a while.
    Because what have I noticed after this talk between Dalgish and Riley?
    If we look at the game Liverpool – Wolverhampton we can see:
    Wrong calls :
    Against Liverpool:         0          0,00%
    Against Wolves            9          100,00%
    Total wrong calls          9
    Okay this can happen you know. The ref has a bad day. He closes his eyes when a striker pushes a defender out of balance as he tries to head the ball away and oh look Liverpool score from that situation. And we see the Wolverhampton players being booked for their first little foul in midfield.
    Our ref reviewer found it strange that in a game all the wrong decisions were in favour of one team. But well this can happen I would say.
    But then we reviewed the game Everton – Liverpool and this time we saw when we looked at the wrong calls the following numers:
    Wrong calls :
    Against Everton           12        92,31%
    Against Liverpool         1          7,69%
    Total wrong calls          13
    So yet again almost no wrong calls going against Liverpool. And the only wrong call that favoured Everton was a foul in the middle of the field early on in the game. But after that, it was one way traffic from the ref and it all went in favour of Liverpool.
    The sending off from Rodwell was well how can I put it mildly a bit suspicious. And it did change the game from then on completely as before the sending off Everton looked very good. And the way the ref didn’t punish the push from Suarez which lead to the second Liverpool game was also a big miss from the ref. And the fact that Suarez also should have been booked twice also escaped the ref.
    Would Liverpool have won both games without the helping hand from the refs that we have seen? Nobody knows. But I do know that both Wolverhampton and Everton have every right to feel bad treated by the refs in those games. They certainly didn’t get the chance to defend themselves in the same way as Liverpool could.
    But when you look at the fact that Dalglish went to see Riley and then suddenly in the next two games Liverpool get all the decisions in their favour. Gets all the dubious calls in their favour. Then this makes you wonder: what on earth is going on?
    Is it enough for a manager to go to Riley and suddenly get the calls going your way? Well then this is not just an outrageous disgrace but also this makes you wonder: how many managers have been going to Riley in the past? What have they got in return?
    Maybe perhaps one manager even doesn’t have to go to Riley. Maybe he has his cell phone number ready at the office. He maybe even have his personal phone number.
    To give you an impression on the wrong calls Liverpool has had this season I will give you the numbers of the wrong calls so far in their 7 games played. If you can find when and where Dalglish and Riley had their meeting just send it on a postcard to Untold Towers and the lucky number will get one free drink when Tony and I meet at the Auld Triangle the next time before a game.
    Week% of wrong calls going against Liverpool125                (Liverpool – Sunderland – Dowd)233,33           (Arsenal – Liverpool – Atkinson)350                (Liverpool – Bolton – Probert)466,67           (Stoke – Liverpool – Clattenburg)563,64           (Tottenham – Liverpool – Jones)60                  (Liverpool – Wolves – Friend)77,69             (Everton – Liverpool – Atkinson)

  • Wait, what does this have to do with the spanish youth system?

  • Bertrand

    What has your post got to do with the Spanish youth system?

    Numpty.

  • Either you're a coward that hides behind a computer screen, or you are just an all around ass.
    Either way, try have a conversation here without resorting to petty insults

  • Hayseapl

    Barcelona complain,yet brought in Messi at 13......immoral,my arse.
    That club truly thinks they are above the law........MORE THAN A CLUB!!!!!!!
    Wankers.
    They did everything possible to get Fabregas at a massively reduced fee,then rub our noses in it.
    Pack of scumbags.

  • Georgedb1

    Finally, someone who sees through the lisping nonsense that those deficit runners spew. Screw bartha and the spit drenched region that they come from. Lets hear it for Los Blancos and Murinho. 

  • Yep, because Real Madrid and Mourinho are both paragons of all things good and moral.

  • Homey_Mills

    I hope everyone was able to identify the players in the top photo.  Finding that photo was like finding blogging gold.  Loved it.

  • Gigi_man

    Great pic, I just stole it :P
    Cesc and Pique right? the others ...hhmm dont dare to say

  • Casimir

    Is the keeper with the terrible 90s haircut Pepe Reina pre-balding?

  • Bertrand

    Whose the captain?

  • Homey_Mills

    The only two I know of are just Cesc and Pique.  I think the article would have mentioned Reina if that were him.

  • TJ_UGA

    I got Cesc and Pique. That's it.

  • Homey_Mills

    Yeah, I think that's all I know of.  But if you're not looking closely, you might overlook both of them.  

  • perryvs

    you should read the caption that 7amkickoff has of that picture. it reads "these 5 kids in the picture will forever be known as those kids who played with cesc and pique" or something to that effect

  • TJ_UGA

    Good stuff, Homey. I wish we got about 2-3 of them a year, every year, and maybe in 4-5 years we'll be really good again.

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